Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The part about nightmares -- sure, that's a reason not to shoot him. Other than that though, I don't think it would be considered vigilante justice. I mean the guy is in there showing off a human head and he has a weapon. He might not be an immediate threat, but they are going to have to get him out of there somehow, so he will be sooner or later.

Obviously the RCMP was able to arrest the guy without having to shoot him, so I don't think that argument holds much water.

Or just plain old nerves. Who would blame a cop if he was a little too touchy in that situation? "He had the head in his hand and he was holding that knife and looking right at me, I freaked!"

I would hope that our law enforcement agents are trained to remain calm and rational in high-stress situations like this so they don't "freak" and unnecessarily discharge their firearms.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...BceudWneb1Jv1A

The American comments are completely ludicrous. Al-Qaeda linked? Wow. Just wow. There are some seriously asinine comments on this article, especially from people who weren't even there to experience it....

You know what's odd to me..I mentioned this incident at work today and no none knew what I was talking about??!!!!I did see it on the news very briefly last night, but the main preoccupation is our "latest missing white girl". Not saying that that isnt tragic, but now that there's supposedly a sex scandal involving the mother, it's probably all we'll hear about for awhile. That and who's more racist, Obama or McCain. Jeeez. Stay safe everyone !!!!!

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Azure

Okay, I'm not calling anyone a coward, but just because the guy was 'probably' already dead, which we don't know....isn't a good reason for people to run.

I'm sure 90% of the people in that situation would also run. That is normal human behavior. But to say 'ah hell, forget him, he's already dead' and flee, that doesn't fly.

Again. Ridiculous. What were they supposed to do? What would you have done? Stormed down the aisle of a bus and attacked/disarmed a big guy with a big knife with your bare hands (or with a purse or a book like some of the f'n morons in the comments in the cnn article suggested)?

Everyone likes a good Hollywood ending where there happens to be a Chuck Norris sitting on the bus ready to disarm a nutcase with a butcher knife, but this is reality.
I might give your line of thinking a shred of validation if this took place in a parking lot or in any kind of venue where more than one person could mount the attack simultaneously, but we're talking about a bus. Every Greyhound bus I've been on has an aisle down the middle. An aisle that only accommodates single file attacking. What good would it be for people to run toward a psychopath with a knife with no space to maneuver side to side? It is almost certain that the person would be seriously wounded if not critically or mortally, and also highly likely to provoke the nutcase to attack more people.


Ask yourself this: if you had the knife and the thirst for blood, how many people do you think you'd slice up before a hero finally took you down? Chances are that you'd have a good three or four bodies stacked up in the aisle before someone got a lucky grip on your wrist and twisted the knife out of your hand.


And as far as the idiot that compared this to the heros that disarmed the boxcutter-wielders on United 93, let me remind that moron that if a plane goes down, everyone dies. Not just half or just a couple of people. A bus gets pulled over to the side of the road and you can save a good portion of the passengers.

They sound pretty heroic to me. They saved all but one and also managed to keep the killer detained until police arrived. In my not so humble opinion, anyone that disagrees with whit I just said is completely delusional. If any of you would-be heros think you have the skill to disarm the guy in question, you probably think that because you have some kind of Marine training or something, which, as you know, few people have. The rest of us gotta rely on common sense.

Oh yeah, and FTR, United 93 crashed anyway.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because vigilante justice isn't the solution? The killer wasn't a threat at that point. What would shooting him do except to leave a cop with nightmares for the rest of their lives?

The guy is sitting in the bus holding a human head that happened to be alive a few hours prior.

Make him comply, and if he doesn't, shoot him.

Save Canada the embarrassment from sending him through our pathetic justice system.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Again. Ridiculous. What were they supposed to do? What would you have done? Stormed down the aisle of a bus and attacked/disarmed a big guy with a big knife with your bare hands (or with a purse or a book like some of the f'n morons in the comments in the cnn article suggested)?

Again, I SAID it was normal human behavior to run. 90% of the population would probably do the SAME thing in that situation. I don't know how I would react in a situation like that. Nobody really does until they go through it.

And I'm not saying that they SHOULD have done something. All I'm saying is that the attitude to 'run cause the guy is dead anyways'....is wrong. And pathetic. Everyone can say all they want how someone 'helping' could have made the situation worse. Well, I'm saying someone 'helping'...might have given the victim a fighting chance. But of course, now we'll never know.

Hitting a 'vital' place on the neck, or anywhere else on your body is harder than the movies make it out to seem. We've both seen hockey players cut their neck open on skate blades but still survive.

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Again. Ridiculous. What were they supposed to do? What would you have done? Stormed down the aisle of a bus and attacked/disarmed a big guy with a big knife with your bare hands (or with a purse or a book like some of the f'n morons in the comments in the cnn article suggested)?

Everyone likes a good Hollywood ending where there happens to be a Chuck Norris sitting on the bus ready to disarm a nutcase with a butcher knife, but this is reality.
I might give your line of thinking a shred of validation if this took place in a parking lot or in any kind of venue where more than one person could mount the attack simultaneously, but we're talking about a bus. Every Greyhound bus I've been on has an aisle down the middle. An aisle that only accommodates single file attacking. What good would it be for people to run toward a psychopath with a knife with no space to maneuver side to side? It is almost certain that the person would be seriously wounded if not critically or mortally, and also highly likely to provoke the nutcase to attack more people.


Ask yourself this: if you had the knife and the thirst for blood, how many people do you think you'd slice up before a hero finally took you down? Chances are that you'd have a good three or four bodies stacked up in the aisle before someone got a lucky grip on your wrist and twisted the knife out of your hand.


And as far as the idiot that compared this to the heros that disarmed the boxcutter-wielders on United 93, let me remind that moron that if a plane goes down, everyone dies. Not just half or just a couple of people. A bus gets pulled over to the side of the road and you can save a good portion of the passengers.

They sound pretty heroic to me. They saved all but one and also managed to keep the killer detained until police arrived. In my not so humble opinion, anyone that disagrees with whit I just said is completely delusional. If any of you would-be heros think you have the skill to disarm the guy in question, you probably think that because you have some kind of Marine training or something, which, as you know, few people have. The rest of us gotta rely on common sense.

Oh yeah, and FTR, United 93 crashed anyway.

great post....

There shouldn't even be a trial in this situation...

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Azure

Again, I SAID it was normal human behavior to run. 90% of the population would probably do the SAME thing in that situation. I don't know how I would react in a situation like that. Nobody really does until they go through it.

And I'm not saying that they SHOULD have done something. All I'm saying is that the attitude to 'run cause the guy is dead anyways'....is wrong. And pathetic. Everyone can say all they want how someone 'helping' could have made the situation worse. Well, I'm saying someone 'helping'...might have given the victim a fighting chance. But of course, now we'll never know.

Hitting a 'vital' place on the neck, or anywhere else on your body is harder than the movies make it out to seem. We've both seen hockey players cut their neck open on skate blades but still survive.

Sorry but no. Having a skate open a wound vs ramming a blade 6 inches to your neck are 2 very different types of wounds. Never mind the quality of help you have on hand the second the injury happens at an NHL arena vs the side of the highway in the middle of nowhere. This took everyone on the bus by surprise so he probably could have stabbed him twice before anyone knew something happened and probably at least 5 times before anyone realized what was actually happening. never mind actually stop him and help this poor SOB.

Never mind the logistics and risks of stopping this... even in the best case scenario this guy is done for by the time anyone can get to the attacker. Even in an ideal scenario with a team of properly trained medical professionals in a sterile environment with all the medical supplies they have in an ER - have fun trying to treat 10-20 stab wounds to the neck. What are a couple random people on a greyhound going to be able to do to save this guys life once the attack is over?

[killer_carlson]

1) My wife, who has a background in counselling and worked at Alberta Hospital, said as soon as she saw the guy that his body language was consistant with some of the people she assisted at the mental health hospital.

NOW IT GETS FRIKKEN FREAKY.

2) The maniac worked in the Concordia area of Edmonton. THAT's ACROSS A SMALL RAVINE. In fact, we are often considered the same area. It would be like Lake Bonaventure being a small part of Lake Bonavista. This is where I LIVE.

3) We get a lot of homeless walking through our area 24/7. My wife, who is home with our baby, isn't 100% sure but the guy looks like one of the people that walks through our neighbourhood to the park at the end of the street. She hasn't seen this particular "regular" for a while and we're never likely to know for sure, but there is a distinct possibility that this maniac frequented where I live.

That really weirds me out. It also pisses me off that our neighbours voted down a proposal to special assess all our homes to get new (and significantly more) streetlights.

[Machiavelli]

One of my old friends from Lethbridge, Alberta said the killer used to be her newspaper man. Pretty creepy.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

One of my old friends from Lethbridge, Alberta said the killer used to be her newspaper man. Pretty creepy.

So when someone stabs/beheads someone we can say they went newspaper?

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by HOOT

So when someone stabs/beheads someone we can say they went newspaper?

That or they went McNugget.

The killer had two jobs. Newspaper boy early in the morning and McDonald's after that.

[simonsays]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The part about nightmares -- sure, that's a reason not to shoot him. Other than that though, I don't think it would be considered vigilante justice. I mean the guy is in there showing off a human head and he has a weapon. He might not be an immediate threat, but they are going to have to get him out of there somehow, so he will be sooner or later. Or just plain old nerves. Who would blame a cop if he was a little too touchy in that situation? "He had the head in his hand and he was holding that knife and looking right at me, I freaked!"

Nobody would blame the cop in this case. But you know and I know and even he knows that he's lying if he said that. And as obvious as this situation sounds, we can't have cops killing people and then lying about their motivations under any circumstances.

Originally Posted by Dr. Fred Shane - courtesy of Dion

"This appears to be a psychotic episode... it's probably a chronically ill person. Most likely a paranoid schizophrenic.

This was one of my first thoughts hearing the story. One generally doesn't reach the age of 40 before they think stabbing and decapitating someone is a considerable idea. But whether he has a documented history of mental disorders is different.

[flame3132]

well sh*t happens...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

have fun trying to treat 10-20 stab wounds to the neck. What are a couple random people on a greyhound going to be able to do to save this guys life once the attack is over?

Are we absolutely certain that the original stab wounds were to the neck? Because the news report I read said that the guy was stabbed in the chest and stomach first.

That is WHY I said he might have been helped. And you know what, even if the guy had died, at least someone was there with him.

[Azure]

You know what, even CSI couldn't come up with a plot like this.

THAT is how freaky this is.

[OilersBaby]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

"There have been several media reports that the man was seen to consume some of the victim's flesh."

This story is getting more gross and gruesome by the minute. Stabbing someone repeatedly and killing them, beheading them, carrying their head to mock the police and passengers, and then eating some of the flesh? I've never heard anything like that in my entire life (i've seen clips of beheadings etc......Nick Berg in Afghanistan but noone ate the guy).

RIP Tim McLean. He seemed like a great guy judging from his friends comments.

I didnt read this thread yesterday because it made me sick to even think about the incident. Now I wish I didn't continue reading this thread today...he was EATING his flesh?

Poor poor victim....the kid had no idea what was coming to him. Poor guy. Talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its so sad to think that it couldve happened to anyone. My lil brother just took the greyhound last week, and Im so glad he wasn't on that bus going to Winnepeg! I can't believe he's only getting 2nd degree murder. He's nuts. Too bad he wasn't American. Then they could extradite (or whatever the word is) him here, and he'd get what he deserved..be put down like he desrves. My husband is a DA here in Cali and we have no tolerence when it comes to ANY crimes. I'm sickened by this.

[OilersBaby]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

OT: I forgot to add. Incidents like this are when I support the death penalty. I don't care if he was "insane" or not, and I know people will say "You're not insane, so you can't know what it's like to be in his state of mind".....but screw it. I'd be all for giving the death penalty to this guy. Insane or not, he killed an innocent 18 year old man by stabbing him atleast 30 times and cut his head off. I'm tired of hearing about getting all the "help" for the killers out there and not worrying about victims/innocent people. This whole story is in messed up.

I couldn't have said it better myself. My husband is always prosecuting criminals where the defense attorney argues the "insanity defense"...in some cases it is true. However, in cases like this...his insanity is going to cause soo many innocent victims their lives. No "help" is going to cure him. He deserves the death penalty no doubt about it.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

...My husband is a DA here in Cali and we have no tolerence when it comes to ANY crimes.

Illegal immigration???

Back on topic. This truly is a horrible incident, as previously stated, you can't make something like this up. There are sick people everywhere. My condolences to the family of this young man.

I'm as staunch an advocate for concealed carry as there is, but it likely would not have helped this poor young man from dying. In the time it would have taken to get a quality shot off without endangering panic stricken passengers running for the exits, the young man would have been gone.

Could you have stopped the decapitation? Probably, but dead men tell no tales and I am curious to hear the what the killer was thinking, if he even knows or remembers.

[RT14]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Again. Ridiculous. What were they supposed to do? What would you have done? Stormed down the aisle of a bus and attacked/disarmed a big guy with a big knife with your bare hands (or with a purse or a book like some of the f'n morons in the comments in the cnn article suggested)?

Everyone likes a good Hollywood ending where there happens to be a Chuck Norris sitting on the bus ready to disarm a nutcase with a butcher knife, but this is reality.
I might give your line of thinking a shred of validation if this took place in a parking lot or in any kind of venue where more than one person could mount the attack simultaneously, but we're talking about a bus. Every Greyhound bus I've been on has an aisle down the middle. An aisle that only accommodates single file attacking. What good would it be for people to run toward a psychopath with a knife with no space to maneuver side to side? It is almost certain that the person would be seriously wounded if not critically or mortally, and also highly likely to provoke the nutcase to attack more people.


Ask yourself this: if you had the knife and the thirst for blood, how many people do you think you'd slice up before a hero finally took you down? Chances are that you'd have a good three or four bodies stacked up in the aisle before someone got a lucky grip on your wrist and twisted the knife out of your hand.


And as far as the idiot that compared this to the heros that disarmed the boxcutter-wielders on United 93, let me remind that moron that if a plane goes down, everyone dies. Not just half or just a couple of people. A bus gets pulled over to the side of the road and you can save a good portion of the passengers.

They sound pretty heroic to me. They saved all but one and also managed to keep the killer detained until police arrived. In my not so humble opinion, anyone that disagrees with whit I just said is completely delusional. If any of you would-be heros think you have the skill to disarm the guy in question, you probably think that because you have some kind of Marine training or something, which, as you know, few people have. The rest of us gotta rely on common sense.

Oh yeah, and FTR, United 93 crashed anyway.

Perfect post. In my opinion, the other passengers reacted perfectly. From what I understand a couple of them even did go back on the bus and attempt to stop the maniac, but like you said, what chance do you have in a small aisle against a guy with a large knife?!? Better just to get back off. It's impressive enough as is that they had the sense in all that chaos to hold him on the bus until the cops showed up.

[blackcherry]

Things like this just leave me flabbergasted. I don't understand how anyone could even think of doing this. And I don't see how it could not be premeditated..who just happens to carry a "rambo" knife around with them? Moving from the front of the bus to the back? It all gives me the creeps.

And I don't blame anyone for leaving the bus. I would have done the exact same thing. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I don't think there's a thing I could do against someone with a knife, so while I'd have wanted to help the guy, all I would have done is added to the death count.

My condolences to the victims friends and family.




And on a very off topic note:

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I don't see any reason why, in this case, a gun would have saved anyones life...batman himself could have been on the bus with a gun and the victim would still be dead...although the victim likely still intact and the attacker would most likely be dead.

Batman's big thing is that he doesn't use guns, so he definitely wouldn't have been any help with one.