[Trade] Sens Acquire Phaneuf in 9 Player Trade

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

How is this not a positive for the Leafs. They took no cap after next season. This is exactly what a rebuilding team needs to do. No one thought they could pull this off.

I have to agree. TML grabbed all sorts of overpaid junk for 2 years to reach the floor. You'll be dishing out longer term contracts to the kids that prove themselves around that time when the junk is gone so you'll have lots of cap for a supporting cast for the kids coming up without having anything overpaid for the floor still sitting around.

I was chatting with a buddy. If LA is the "King" of getting out of weird contracts, TML is the best at making weird out of the box thinking trades that work for both parties. Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel are all sorts of crazy impressive in terms of salary cap reclamation.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Fairly well"? I saw his last game - it was typical Dion. Got walked on his first shift.

His numbers for every game says he is playing well. I know I've argued with people on here and have been told he's a #7 D-Man. Don't believe the silly trolls.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

You're actually going to make the argument the Leafs are better without him?

Yes. Absolutely.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Incorrect. Leafs did it for Kessel.

I meant a fraction of the term

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by fleury

I can't believe anyone is giving the Leafs credit for this deal. The Leafs have continuously given away decent players (albeit with bad contracts), for no value in return. Who have they gotten out of any of their big contract dumps? Phaneuf is no #1 dman, but he apparently had decent value even with his contract a year ago, so why didn't they get any value for him in the trade? Kessel's trade was also a dump despite being him an elite scorer. Finding a suitor on a not so great contract isn't too hard, but it's getting value in return. They haven't got value in return for any of this so I have no idea how anyone can credit the Leafs for any of these moves.

Like who? Right now they'd get a mid first rounder for Phil Kessel and Kapanen (First Rounder) is playing great on the Marlies. AND Harrington, who also is promising and playing well. And Kessel has been a massive bust in Pittsburgh for whatever reason. But to you that's giving him away? Right now the Leafs win that trade.

There are execs being quoted in the papers that they can't believe the Leafs did not retain any money. And you're trying to say they gave Dion away? Now you're upping his value after the trade. Where were these thoughts of Dion having "Decent Value" before this trade?

You're wrong, finding anyone to pick-up a big contract is very difficult. The Clarkson dump was a miracle.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

How is this not a positive for the Leafs. They took no cap after next season. This is exactly what a rebuilding team needs to do. No one thought they could pull this off.

If you acquire almost nothing in return, as Toronto did, you can pull this off.

But given Phaneuf is a guy you rated above Giordano and Brodie, I think we both know that you were expecting a much better return for a guy you proclaimed to be one of the very best in the NHL.

Incidentally, you also said this, once upon a time:

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Dion would not be a second pairing D-Man on Detroit. No chance. Bobacock would play him a hell of a lot.

I would like to point out, to my own personal amusement, that Babcock was playing Phaneuf on his second pairing this year.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If you acquire almost nothing in return, as Toronto did, you can pull this off.

But given Phaneuf is a guy you rated above Giordano and Brodie, I think we both know that you were expecting a much better return for a guy you proclaimed to be one of the very best in the NHL.

Incidentally, you also said this, once upon a time:



I would like to point out, to my own personal amusement, that Babcock was playing Phaneuf on his second pairing this year.

To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.

And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.

And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs(55th overall in the NHL). Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.

And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.

And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs. Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.

No, he was very much second pair under Babcock

Overall ATOI:
Hunwick: 22:28
Reilly: 22:19
Phaneuf: 22:01
Gardner: 19:34
Polak: 19:22

But the closeness of those numbers is deceptive because Phaneuf was run out a ton on the powerplay.

ATOI at even strength:
Reilly: 18:57
Hunwick: 18:46
Gardner: 17:30
Phaneuf: 17:22


Also, if Phaneuf was as good as you used to brag he was, then retaining salary wouldn't be a concern. Teams would line up for a true top pairing guy.

[Resolute 14]

Typical Phaneuf period to begin his career in Ottawa: Threw a decent hit, generated no offence, and broke his own ankles to allow a guy to get a high quality scoring chance.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Typical Phaneuf period to begin his career in Ottawa: Threw a decent hit, generated no offence, and broke his own ankles to allow a guy to get a high quality scoring chance.

https://twitter.com/myregularface/st...154176/photo/1

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Tuna surfacing! Excellent.

So now you are saying he is overpaid? Awesome, thanks for coming out.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Tuna surfacing! Excellent.

So now you are saying he is overpaid? Awesome, thanks for coming out.

Never said he was overpaid. Not once. His salary was horribly exaggerated. I love the made-up quotes you guys attribute to me.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

https://twitter.com/myregularface/st...154176/photo/1

He's off the Leafs. No one will care.

[calgaryblood]

My heart jumps for joy when I see this BigTuna fella talk about the Leafs. It is pure comedy and a nice reminder why they're such a hated fanbase outside of Toronto.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He's off the Leafs. No one will care.

An arrogant Leafs fan? Whoda thunk it?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He's off the Leafs. No one will care.

So arrogant. You really think that the league revolves around the Leafs, don't you?

[Calgary_81]

Hey BigTuna, this question stumped Elliot Friedman:

Name one star the leafs actually created since 2005? I will tell you Friedman's answer one I hear yours.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

So arrogant. You really think that the league revolves around the Leafs, don't you?

Everybody knows there are only two teams in the NHL: the Leafs… and a bunch of guys playing against the Leafs, who wear different coloured jerseys every night to make the league look bigger.

I got this direct from Orange Julius Guy, right after he explained how the moon landings were faked with three rolls of Saran Wrap and some empty toilet-paper tubes.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Like who? Right now they'd get a mid first rounder for Phil Kessel and Kapanen (First Rounder) is playing great on the Marlies. AND Harrington, who also is promising and playing well. And Kessel has been a massive bust in Pittsburgh for whatever reason. But to you that's giving him away? Right now the Leafs win that trade.

I'd argue it doesn't matter that the Leafs are winning it now, at the time it wasn't forseeable they'd win it and they gave him away. Kapanen is small but skilled and has shown nothing at the NHL level. Harrington? Let me know when he does anything in the majors. The Leafs gave away a 40 goal scorer because he was perceived to be a bad teammate. It hasn't worked out yet in Pittsburgh, but his elite goalscoring didn't grow on trees. The organization really handled the PR side of things well through selling the "cancer in the locker room" angle.

Originally Posted by BigTuna

There are execs being quoted in the papers that they can't believe the Leafs did not retain any money. And you're trying to say they gave Dion away? Now you're upping his value after the trade. Where were these thoughts of Dion having "Decent Value" before this trade?

I guess you don't remember last year when Dion was at a lower point and guys like Bob MacKenzie saying that despite all of us thinking Phaneuf's contract was untradable, there were several teams who would take him in a hockey deal? Again, the Leafs PR team working OT and the fan base licking it up. The Leafs dumped a contract but got nothing in return.

Originally Posted by BigTuna

You're wrong, finding anyone to pick-up a big contract is very difficult. The Clarkson dump was a miracle.

I'd fully agree the Clarkson one was a miracle. He didn't deserve it to begin with and dealing that was a total dump. The guy had no value and wasn't a reclamation project. It's a different situation though. Kessel was a 40 goal scorer with a perceived attitude. Phaneuf is a #2-3 d-man overpaid by a couple million. Phaneuf has an upside if put in the right situation. If he's paired with a responsible two way d-man I do think he could be effective, and I think that's what Ottawa's banking on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.

And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.

And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs(55th overall in the NHL). Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.

A prospect and a second is what you get for a pure rental, not what a guy under contract gets you. It's roughly what Calgary got for Glencross. The Leafs screwed the pooch with that contract.