02-10-2016, 05:07 PM
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#221
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
How is this not a positive for the Leafs. They took no cap after next season. This is exactly what a rebuilding team needs to do. No one thought they could pull this off.
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I have to agree. TML grabbed all sorts of overpaid junk for 2 years to reach the floor. You'll be dishing out longer term contracts to the kids that prove themselves around that time when the junk is gone so you'll have lots of cap for a supporting cast for the kids coming up without having anything overpaid for the floor still sitting around.
I was chatting with a buddy. If LA is the "King" of getting out of weird contracts, TML is the best at making weird out of the box thinking trades that work for both parties. Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel are all sorts of crazy impressive in terms of salary cap reclamation.
Last edited by DoubleF; 02-10-2016 at 05:10 PM.
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02-10-2016, 05:08 PM
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#222
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
"Fairly well"? I saw his last game - it was typical Dion. Got walked on his first shift.
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His numbers for every game says he is playing well. I know I've argued with people on here and have been told he's a #7 D-Man. Don't believe the silly trolls.
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02-10-2016, 05:10 PM
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#223
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
You're actually going to make the argument the Leafs are better without him?
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Yes. Absolutely.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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02-10-2016, 05:10 PM
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#224
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
Incorrect. Leafs did it for Kessel.
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I meant a fraction of the term
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02-10-2016, 05:11 PM
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#225
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleury
I can't believe anyone is giving the Leafs credit for this deal. The Leafs have continuously given away decent players (albeit with bad contracts), for no value in return. Who have they gotten out of any of their big contract dumps? Phaneuf is no #1 dman, but he apparently had decent value even with his contract a year ago, so why didn't they get any value for him in the trade? Kessel's trade was also a dump despite being him an elite scorer. Finding a suitor on a not so great contract isn't too hard, but it's getting value in return. They haven't got value in return for any of this so I have no idea how anyone can credit the Leafs for any of these moves.
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Like who? Right now they'd get a mid first rounder for Phil Kessel and Kapanen (First Rounder) is playing great on the Marlies. AND Harrington, who also is promising and playing well. And Kessel has been a massive bust in Pittsburgh for whatever reason. But to you that's giving him away? Right now the Leafs win that trade.
There are execs being quoted in the papers that they can't believe the Leafs did not retain any money. And you're trying to say they gave Dion away? Now you're upping his value after the trade. Where were these thoughts of Dion having "Decent Value" before this trade?
You're wrong, finding anyone to pick-up a big contract is very difficult. The Clarkson dump was a miracle.
Last edited by BigTuna; 02-10-2016 at 05:16 PM.
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02-10-2016, 05:14 PM
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#226
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
How is this not a positive for the Leafs. They took no cap after next season. This is exactly what a rebuilding team needs to do. No one thought they could pull this off.
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If you acquire almost nothing in return, as Toronto did, you can pull this off.
But given Phaneuf is a guy you rated above Giordano and Brodie, I think we both know that you were expecting a much better return for a guy you proclaimed to be one of the very best in the NHL.
Incidentally, you also said this, once upon a time:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
Dion would not be a second pairing D-Man on Detroit. No chance. Bobacock would play him a hell of a lot.
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I would like to point out, to my own personal amusement, that Babcock was playing Phaneuf on his second pairing this year.
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02-10-2016, 05:19 PM
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#227
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
If you acquire almost nothing in return, as Toronto did, you can pull this off.
But given Phaneuf is a guy you rated above Giordano and Brodie, I think we both know that you were expecting a much better return for a guy you proclaimed to be one of the very best in the NHL.
Incidentally, you also said this, once upon a time:
I would like to point out, to my own personal amusement, that Babcock was playing Phaneuf on his second pairing this year.
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To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.
And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.
And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs(55th overall in the NHL). Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.
Last edited by BigTuna; 02-10-2016 at 05:31 PM.
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02-10-2016, 05:34 PM
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#228
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.
And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.
And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs. Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.
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No, he was very much second pair under Babcock
Overall ATOI:
Hunwick: 22:28
Reilly: 22:19
Phaneuf: 22:01
Gardner: 19:34
Polak: 19:22
But the closeness of those numbers is deceptive because Phaneuf was run out a ton on the powerplay.
ATOI at even strength:
Reilly: 18:57
Hunwick: 18:46
Gardner: 17:30
Phaneuf: 17:22
Also, if Phaneuf was as good as you used to brag he was, then retaining salary wouldn't be a concern. Teams would line up for a true top pairing guy.
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02-10-2016, 05:49 PM
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#229
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In the Sin Bin
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Typical Phaneuf period to begin his career in Ottawa: Threw a decent hit, generated no offence, and broke his own ankles to allow a guy to get a high quality scoring chance.
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02-10-2016, 05:57 PM
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#230
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maple Bay, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Typical Phaneuf period to begin his career in Ottawa: Threw a decent hit, generated no offence, and broke his own ankles to allow a guy to get a high quality scoring chance.
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https://twitter.com/myregularface/st...154176/photo/1
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02-10-2016, 06:56 PM
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#231
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Tuna surfacing! Excellent.
So now you are saying he is overpaid? Awesome, thanks for coming out.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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02-10-2016, 07:07 PM
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#232
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug
Tuna surfacing! Excellent.
So now you are saying he is overpaid? Awesome, thanks for coming out.
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Never said he was overpaid. Not once. His salary was horribly exaggerated. I love the made-up quotes you guys attribute to me.
Last edited by BigTuna; 02-10-2016 at 07:11 PM.
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02-10-2016, 07:07 PM
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#233
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_pinched
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He's off the Leafs. No one will care.
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02-10-2016, 07:12 PM
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#234
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
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My heart jumps for joy when I see this BigTuna fella talk about the Leafs. It is pure comedy and a nice reminder why they're such a hated fanbase outside of Toronto.
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02-10-2016, 07:18 PM
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#235
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maple Bay, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
He's off the Leafs. No one will care.
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An arrogant Leafs fan? Whoda thunk it?
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02-10-2016, 07:35 PM
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#236
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Northern Crater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
He's off the Leafs. No one will care.
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So arrogant. You really think that the league revolves around the Leafs, don't you?
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02-10-2016, 07:49 PM
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#237
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jun 2011
Exp: 
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Hey BigTuna, this question stumped Elliot Friedman:
Name one star the leafs actually created since 2005? I will tell you Friedman's answer one I hear yours.
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02-10-2016, 08:14 PM
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#238
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix
So arrogant. You really think that the league revolves around the Leafs, don't you?
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Everybody knows there are only two teams in the NHL: the Leafs… and a bunch of guys playing against the Leafs, who wear different coloured jerseys every night to make the league look bigger.
I got this direct from Orange Julius Guy, right after he explained how the moon landings were faked with three rolls of Saran Wrap and some empty toilet-paper tubes.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
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02-10-2016, 08:35 PM
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#239
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
Like who? Right now they'd get a mid first rounder for Phil Kessel and Kapanen (First Rounder) is playing great on the Marlies. AND Harrington, who also is promising and playing well. And Kessel has been a massive bust in Pittsburgh for whatever reason. But to you that's giving him away? Right now the Leafs win that trade.
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I'd argue it doesn't matter that the Leafs are winning it now, at the time it wasn't forseeable they'd win it and they gave him away. Kapanen is small but skilled and has shown nothing at the NHL level. Harrington? Let me know when he does anything in the majors. The Leafs gave away a 40 goal scorer because he was perceived to be a bad teammate. It hasn't worked out yet in Pittsburgh, but his elite goalscoring didn't grow on trees. The organization really handled the PR side of things well through selling the "cancer in the locker room" angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
There are execs being quoted in the papers that they can't believe the Leafs did not retain any money. And you're trying to say they gave Dion away? Now you're upping his value after the trade. Where were these thoughts of Dion having "Decent Value" before this trade?
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I guess you don't remember last year when Dion was at a lower point and guys like Bob MacKenzie saying that despite all of us thinking Phaneuf's contract was untradable, there were several teams who would take him in a hockey deal? Again, the Leafs PR team working OT and the fan base licking it up. The Leafs dumped a contract but got nothing in return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
You're wrong, finding anyone to pick-up a big contract is very difficult. The Clarkson dump was a miracle.
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I'd fully agree the Clarkson one was a miracle. He didn't deserve it to begin with and dealing that was a total dump. The guy had no value and wasn't a reclamation project. It's a different situation though. Kessel was a 40 goal scorer with a perceived attitude. Phaneuf is a #2-3 d-man overpaid by a couple million. Phaneuf has an upside if put in the right situation. If he's paired with a responsible two way d-man I do think he could be effective, and I think that's what Ottawa's banking on.
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02-10-2016, 09:37 PM
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#240
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna
To point out, they did get a decent prospect and a second rounder.
And no, I did not expect more than this. And everyone did not expect him to be moved without retaining salary.
There are lots of players I think are very good but would be hard to move due to salary implications.
And to point out, Dion is second in ice-time on the Leafs(55th overall in the NHL). Calling him a second-pairing is not correct. Babcock never played him as a second pairing.
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A prospect and a second is what you get for a pure rental, not what a guy under contract gets you. It's roughly what Calgary got for Glencross. The Leafs screwed the pooch with that contract.
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