Congresswoman and 17 others shot in Arizona

[Gozer]

I think Henry Ford had a portrait of Hitler in his office.

edit: Hitler had a portrait of Ford

[Stumptown]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Maybe, but his favourite books include The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf . I'd be suprised if he is libertarian.

You can easily read either of those texts with an agenda and get what you want out of them. Same goes for Ayn Rand (a figurehead of libertarianism), who is also listed in his favorite books. I'm essentially a communist but enjoyed reading Adam Smith because he taught me so much about how capitalism works, and only served to reinforce what I thought about it going into the text. For people who feed on anger, books that make them angry would be their favorites.

I was just talking politics with a relatively recent immigrant to the US the other day. He left his Central American home to come here to escape the assassinations and cartels, but now is seeing the same things happening here. I agreed, and said we're not far from that here now. I hated being right when I saw the news from Tucson today.

[SeeBass]

this short clip of her talking about palin's target as being dangerous

http://yesbuthowever.com/gabrielle-giffords-5000205/

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I have guns, I however don't dream about killing people with them.

That is you, and many gun owners are responsible people, but emotions are highly unpredictable, and easy access to guns can make bad situations much much worse.

I am a very normal, stable, law abiding person, however, I had a scenario when I was 19 or 20, if I had a gun on hand, I would have 100% without a doubt used it, and my life would have taken a very different path. I was having a small house party, and ended up with some uninvited, unwanted guests. Guys I did not even know, but knew some aquaintences of mine. There was a guy doing coke on my kitchen table, and wrecking my kitchen utensils heating up heroine or coke... I am not a drug expert, so I don't know what it was exactly. I told the guy to get the f out of my apartment, and take his drug addict friends with him. Him proceeded to stick a gun in my face, right against my forehead, and say "Nobody tells me what I can and cannot do." and makes me leave MY home. And humiliates me in front of my friends and girlfriend. My first instinct, just go outside and call the cops on from a pay phone. A friend of mine said "unless you want to look over your shoulder the rest of your life, just let it go." I guess this guy was a pretty big dealer at the time, and very bad news. I snapped, got in my car, and headed to my dads house to get his shotgun.

The only thing that stopped me was the fact my girlfriend, took my car keys, and took off with them, leaving me my only choice to walk 5 kms with a shotgun in broad daylight, which of course was not an option. She stopped me from making the biggest mistake of my life, but what I thought at that time was a rational decision that would have likely ended up getting me killed as these guys proceeded to stay there for over an hour and trash my place and steal my stuff as I was gone, and would have still been there when I got back.

The problem with guns is even the most sane, even tempered individual, can have a momentary lapse in judgement, or charge in emotions that can make them make very stupid irrational decisions. That is why I woukd never own one. Yes I had one pointed in my face, to many that would be enough to justify owning one right there for self defense. But at the end of the day, I am still here, and don't have blood on my hands, and that is a much better option.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by pylon

That is you, and many gun owners are responsible people, but emotions are highly unpredictable, and easy access to guns can make bad situations much much worse.

I am a very normal, stable, law abiding person, however, I had a scenario when I was 19 or 20, if I had a gun on hand, I would have 100% without a doubt used it, and my life would have taken a very different path. I was having a small house party, and ended up with some uninvited, unwanted guests. Guys I did not even know, but knew some aquaintences of mine. There was a guy doing coke on my kitchen table, and wrecking my kitchen utensils heating up heroine or coke... I am not a drug expert, so I don't know what it was exactly. I told the guy to get the f out of my apartment, and take his drug addict friends with him. Him proceeded to stick a gun in my face, right against my forehead, and say "Nobody tells me what I can and cannot do." and makes me leave MY home. And humiliates me in front of my friends and girlfriend. My first instinct, just go outside and call the cops on from a pay phone. A friend of mine said "unless you want to look over your shoulder the rest of your life, just let it go." I guess this guy was a pretty big dealer at the time, and very bad news. I snapped, got in my car, and headed to my dads house to get his shotgun.

The only thing that stopped me was the fact my girlfriend, took my car keys, and took off with them, leaving me my only choice to walk 5 kms with a shotgun in broad daylight, which of course was not an option. She stopped me from making the biggest mistake of my life, but what I thought at that time was a rational decision that would have likely ended up getting me killed as these guys proceeded to stay there for over an hour and trash my place and steal my stuff as I was gone, and would have still been there when I got back.

The problem with guns is even the most sane, even tempered individual, can have a momentary lapse in judgement, or charge in emotions that can make them make very stupid irrational decisions. That is why I woukd never own one. Yes I had one pointed in my face, to many that would be enough to justify owning one right there for self defense. But at the end of the day, I am still here, and don't have blood on my hands, and that is a much better option.

Yeah sorry about that

[Reggie Dunlop]

There were also 19 other books mentioned on Loughner's YouTube bio. I've read about a dozen of them. There's probably folks here who have read all of them.

Being a fan of literature/historically significant books does not mean you ascribe to the author's political leanings.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Stumptown

You can easily read either of those texts with an agenda and get what you want out of them. Same goes for Ayn Rand (a figurehead of libertarianism), who is also listed in his favorite books. I'm essentially a communist but enjoyed reading Adam Smith because he taught me so much about how capitalism works, and only served to reinforce what I thought about it going into the text. For people who feed on anger, books that make them angry would be their favorites.

I was just talking politics with a relatively recent immigrant to the US the other day. He left his Central American home to come here to escape the assassinations and cartels, but now is seeing the same things happening here. I agreed, and said we're not far from that here now. I hated being right when I saw the news from Tucson today.

Speaking of Ayn Rand, I always loved this quote from Kung Fu Monkey:

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Yeah sorry about that

Normally I would thank a jab like that, but it was probably the scariest moment of my life. It was the closest I came to crapping myself, without the excuse of "Never trust a fart."

[stamphater]

I think all handguns should be illegal. Like Ronnie Van Zant said: "Handguns are made for killing; ain't no good for nothing else."

I know a handgun wasn't used here but they are used in most killings including spousal disputes. They aren't particularly great for hunting - and if you hunt with a handgun you are a ###### - and aren't all that effective for protection as they are unpredictable as far as shooting accurately goes.

Cops can have them and no one else as far as I'm concerned.

[GirlySports]

Why do all killers have three names?

[stamphater]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

There were also 19 other books mentioned on Loughner's YouTube bio. I've read about a dozen of them. There's probably folks here who have read all of them.

Being a fan of literature/historically significant books does not mean you ascribe to the author's political leanings.

Exactly! Mein Kampf is one of the most interesting books I've ever read. Doesn't mean I'm going out to terminate Jews...

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by pylon

That is you, and many gun owners are responsible people, but emotions are highly unpredictable, and easy access to guns can make bad situations much much worse.

I am a very normal, stable, law abiding person, however, I had a scenario when I was 19 or 20, if I had a gun on hand, I would have 100% without a doubt used it, and my life would have taken a very different path. I was having a small house party, and ended up with some uninvited, unwanted guests. Guys I did not even know, but knew some aquaintences of mine. There was a guy doing coke on my kitchen table, and wrecking my kitchen utensils heating up heroine or coke... I am not a drug expert, so I don't know what it was exactly. I told the guy to get the f out of my apartment, and take his drug addict friends with him. Him proceeded to stick a gun in my face, right against my forehead, and say "Nobody tells me what I can and cannot do." and makes me leave MY home. And humiliates me in front of my friends and girlfriend. My first instinct, just go outside and call the cops on from a pay phone. A friend of mine said "unless you want to look over your shoulder the rest of your life, just let it go." I guess this guy was a pretty big dealer at the time, and very bad news. I snapped, got in my car, and headed to my dads house to get his shotgun.

The only thing that stopped me was the fact my girlfriend, took my car keys, and took off with them, leaving me my only choice to walk 5 kms with a shotgun in broad daylight, which of course was not an option. She stopped me from making the biggest mistake of my life, but what I thought at that time was a rational decision that would have likely ended up getting me killed as these guys proceeded to stay there for over an hour and trash my place and steal my stuff as I was gone, and would have still been there when I got back.

The problem with guns is even the most sane, even tempered individual, can have a momentary lapse in judgement, or charge in emotions that can make them make very stupid irrational decisions. That is why I woukd never own one. Yes I had one pointed in my face, to many that would be enough to justify owning one right there for self defense. But at the end of the day, I am still here, and don't have blood on my hands, and that is a much better option.

nm
Don't want to start an argument with canadians who think weapons are just bad and should be outlawed

[stamphater]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Why do all killers have three names?

If you've ever seen the Seinfeld episode with a character named Joel Rifkin; you would understand.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by PIMking

well some people carry weapons (like myself for defense also for sport) but seriously a guy points a gun at your forehead and in your home and you didn't do anything?

I'm glad I live in Bama and not in a area as yours. If I had someone point a weapon in my face I have every right to put him down to defend myself. I don't care how big of a hippie you are if you danger my life I will defend it to any means. There wouldn't be "blood on my hands" there would be Blood on my carpet. But I guess allow people to push you around and point guns in your face. Nothing like being a prisoner in your own home...

Problem is, around here they put us in jail for that.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by PIMking

well some people carry weapons (like myself for defense also for sport) but seriously a guy points a gun at your forehead and in your home and you didn't do anything?

I'm glad I live in Bama and not in a area as yours. If I had someone point a weapon in my face I have every right to put him down to defend myself. I don't care how big of a hippie you are if you danger my life I will defend it to any means. There wouldn't be "blood on my hands" there would be Blood on my carpet. But I guess allow people to push you around and point guns in your face. Nothing like being a prisoner in your own home...

I'm glad too.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by stamphater

I think all handguns should be illegal. Like Ronnie Van Zant said: "Handguns are made for killing; ain't no good for nothing else."

I know a handgun wasn't used here but they are used in most killings including spousal disputes. They aren't particularly great for hunting - and if you hunt with a handgun you are a ###### - and aren't all that effective for protection as they are unpredictable as far as shooting accurately goes.

Cops can have them and no one else as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, Not like these gangsters are law abiding citizens and would just stop using guns or obtaining them once they are outlawed....

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I'm glad too.

Wouldn't matter if I lived in Iowa or Wisconsin or even Florida. I will not allow someone to put a weapon in my face at my home. I guess you are fine with being packed into rail cars and being put into camps and killed.

[stamphater]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yes, Not like these gangsters are law abiding citizens and would just stop using guns or obtaining them once they are outlawed....

It would make it easier to crack down on it, whether you believe it or not. I think you missed my point.

I'm fine with Rifles and all that stuff but handguns should be outlawed. My two cents...

[HOZ]

So have we stopped inappropriately, mindlessly blaming of Sarah Palin, The Tea Party, the GOP, FOX news, Rush Limbaugh, Seattle Sea Hawks upset win and Global Warming for this shooting?

Have we settle down an started to blame the shooter and his instability?

Some really shocking knee-jerk reactions to this shooting and I think those people should be ashamed of themselves for reacting that way.

[stamphater]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Wouldn't matter if I lived in Iowa or Wisconsin or even Florida. I will not allow someone to put a weapon in my face at my home. I guess you are fine with being packed into rail cars and being put into camps and killed.

Does having a gun stop people from trying to break into a house? How many break-in's are there in Bama each year? Cradling your gun as you fall asleep doesn't change anything...