08-21-2007, 08:36 AM
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#61
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First Line Centre
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Wow, pretty shocking development, can't underestimate microsoft's involvement in this, as they have been the bankroll for the format for some time. I have both formats, which are both brilliant, but I really thought everything I was reading was pointing to Universal caving and ending the HDDVD format. Though I did find it interesting that Samsung, a Blu-ray founder was making a combo-player, a bit of foreshadowing I guess.
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08-21-2007, 08:40 AM
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#62
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in your blind spot.
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If it wasn't for the additional DRM on the Blu-ray discks, it would be the better format. It just holds more data.
But I am anti-drm, I believe it screws over honest users. So I am rooting for HD-DVD.
But rooting for Microsoft or Sony is like picking who you would prefer to kick you in the balls.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
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08-21-2007, 10:22 AM
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#63
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Lifetime Suspension
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I am headed stateside in a week, and I am going to try to pick up an HD player while down there. I am hoping to pick up either a refurb A1 ($189) or new A2 ($259) or an XBox DVD player ($179) which can be hooked up to a PC, FYI. Both the A2 and the Xbox have a 5 free movie offer by mail, though you have to be American. (My sister lives down there, so I could always ship them to her.)
I don't get that so many people who have dropped $2K on HD TVs or projectors but are afraid to spend $200 on a HD-DVD player. That HD TV is a huge waste of money on a standard DVD player. I for one am not going to wait years for this to be sorted out. (However, I'm not planning on building a huge library of HD disks, the DVD-by-mail rental companies offer HD DVDs so I am going to try that route first.)
As for Blu-Ray, I have zero interest in buying a PS3. Also, I hate Sony with a passion. This is the company that is always trying to create its own proprietary formats. (Betamax, LaserDisc, 8mm Hi-8/Digital-8 video, Memory Stick, etc., etc..)
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08-21-2007, 11:08 AM
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#64
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jul 2007
Exp: 
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Is there a visual difference between the two?
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08-21-2007, 11:46 AM
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#65
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in your blind spot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAI
Is there a visual difference between the two?
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Nope. They use the same video codecs.
On the audio side there are some slight differences. HD-DVD require some higher end audio codecs that are optional in blu-ray (Dolby TrueHD, and Dolby Digital Plus).
Oter differences: blu-ray can store more, and allows faster data transfer. Blu-ray has an additional level of DRM (called BD+).
Wikipedia has a good chart.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
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08-21-2007, 12:14 PM
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#66
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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I thought in practice all BD movies were using MPEG-2 and HDDVD was using the VLC1?
EDIT: Wikipedia says that BD movies are using VLC-1 more now...
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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08-21-2007, 12:22 PM
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#67
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehead
Wikipedia has a good chart. |
from that chart, it says HD DVD is "Region Free". Does that mean my old foreign DVDs will play on a new HD DVD player? Will they play on some Blu Ray players, which evidently have only 3 different regions?
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08-21-2007, 12:29 PM
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#68
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada 02
from that chart, it says HD DVD is "Region Free". Does that mean my old foreign DVDs will play on a new HD DVD player? Will they play on some Blu Ray players, which evidently have only 3 different regions?
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No only HD DVDs a region free. that means the HD DVD that are available in Britain (ie. Harry Potter) you can purchase the disk from the UK and it will play in you NA HD DVD player. DVDs still go by region.
__________________
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08-21-2007, 12:30 PM
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#69
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God of Hating Twitter
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I was hoping this would be over quickly 
It was annoying to watch the DVD vs DIVX fiasco, this HD/Blu-ray seems to be dragging on longer than I had hoped.
I think alot of people would be happy to just have it settled.
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08-21-2007, 12:36 PM
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#70
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Playboy Mansion Poolboy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
It was annoying to watch the DVD vs DIVX fiasco,
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Really? Because it didn't seem like to me that DIVX stood a chance. IMO DIVX only stood to benefit from the people who lived far away from major centres, and typically those people aren't early adopters of technology; never mind how few people live outside of urban areas.
Plus, my first DVD player supported both formats. (A circa 1998 RCA DVD player.)
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08-21-2007, 12:56 PM
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#71
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in your blind spot.
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For people thinking about getting the HD-DVD player for the Xbox360, keep in mind that the XBox doesn't have HDMI. (a new version recently announced does include HDMI, I think)
If (when) studios start to turn on the Image Constraint Token (ICT) on movies then any player not connected via HDMI will scale down to 480p. Right now there is some sort of a backroom agreement not to use ICT, but it is part of the specification on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
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08-21-2007, 01:08 PM
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#72
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greerb
No only HD DVDs a region free. that means the HD DVD that are available in Britain (ie. Harry Potter) you can purchase the disk from the UK and it will play in you NA HD DVD player. DVDs still go by region.
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Yep...I purchased the "Blu-ray" exclusive Terminator 2 online (France release) for HD DVD and am enjoying it very much. Region free is a great part of HD DVD!
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08-21-2007, 01:18 PM
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#74
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnes
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Bay is obviously just being a cry-baby right now but wouldn't it be interesting if he forced Paramount to choose between going HD DVD exclusive or Transformers 2?
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08-21-2007, 01:34 PM
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#75
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehead
For people thinking about getting the HD-DVD player for the Xbox360, keep in mind that the XBox doesn't have HDMI. (a new version recently announced does include HDMI, I think)
If (when) studios start to turn on the Image Constraint Token (ICT) on movies then any player not connected via HDMI will scale down to 480p. Right now there is some sort of a backroom agreement not to use ICT, but it is part of the specification on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray.
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You sure about that? My understanding is the only difference between HDMI and the latest DVI is that HDMI carries sound. As long as the DVI is HDCP compliant on both ends, there is no problem. [That is, your source is HDCP compliant and your TV or monitor is HDCP compliant.] If there is, I've just invested in an HDCP compliant computer with an HDCP video card for nothing.
The problem seems to be whether the XBox with DVI is HDCP compliant. Further reading seems to say that the Xbox only has component outs. Yeah, component won't work properly if they turn on ICT. I can't believe the Xbox360 came out with a component connection.
Last edited by Vulcan; 08-21-2007 at 02:33 PM.
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08-21-2007, 01:45 PM
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#76
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobatuzzied
I find it hard to believe you can't tell the difference between 1080 lines of resolution and 480 lines of resolution on a regular dvd.
Can you see the difference between 240 lines of resolution on VHS and the 480 on the dvd?
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If you’re going to quote me please at least read what I wrote... Not once did I claim I see no difference, in fact I specifically said that in a side by side comparison you would see a difference...
Quote:
Originally Posted by greerb
Actually DVD maxes out at 480i/p
HD-DVD video compared to DVD is nignt and day. If one has the TV for it it is a no brainer. Kinda like tose who have HDTV and still do not subsribe to HDTV with thier provider.
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Yes I can see the difference between S-video VHS and component cable DVD set ups as well... My entire point is about questioning the need for HD. Ultimately any new technology, in this case either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is going to be successful based on the public needing or wanting the new technology. As I said early I think a good majority of the population has not yet bothered to set up their DVD viewing optimally, they use RCA cables or S-video hell some still have a square TV and purchase full screen DVD's... a good majority of people can get an very good viewing experience by simply investing a couple hundred dollars in their DVD setups and not thousands... When we went from VHS to DVD there was a myriad of reasons for it - picture quality was only one of many that included never seen before and very cool special features (years later we still buy DVD's for their special feature content - many of us own multiple copies of the same movie for that very reason) DVD's had multiple audio tracks and subtitles in 3 or 4 languages as well as information or trivia sub-titles, Scene selection and high quality sound and of course never having to "be kind and rewind" again... plus it was plug and play you could get most of those benefits by simply buying the DVD player... and IF you wanted to get the rest you could upgrade other components at your leisure or as your budget allowed. The step up from DVD to HD offers a lot less (in most peoples minds, right or wrong, all it offers is better picture quality) yet it demands you upgrade alot if not all of your home theater in order to realize that benefit. There are many people including myself that are looking at their DVD picture and thinking (when the source material is actually the best it can be) it is just not needed (and I'm sorry but in those pictures Human Torch linked - I own King Kong and at no point is he and the girl fuzzy black and tan blobs, those pictures do not represent my DVD setup at all) that said IMHO who cares if I can't clearly count the wrinkles on Dumbledorfs face. So since a large majority of people have still not bothered to upgrade their DVD set up so that they get the best picture possible out of it they simply will continue to rent and buy DVD's and have no interest in a better picture, if they did they would have ditched the RCA cables years ago. Couple that with the fact that DVD's are released daily that have transfers way below 480 lines of resolution and that it seems like companies don't use the existing technology to its fullest potential anyway, why would I trust that they will do so for HD movies... they made all the same promises with DVD's release and now regularly “cash cow” releases with little regard for sound or picture quality and few if any quality special features...
I think everything I have said explains why HD-DVD has dropped its expected total player sales for the year from 1.8 million in North America to only 1 million and why they have only 300,000 units sold so far and I will say again Bluray really has only 100,000 players sold because counting 1.4 million PS3's is not a good representation of people that went out to get a Blu-ray player, many don't even know its a blu-ray player and I'd say a but load more simply wanted a PS3, the fact that it was blu-ray player is ok, but not something they would have bought separately, its like a free gift, just because you take it doesn't mean you like it, want it or support it - it was free.
I understand some people here have set their priorities to include a HD picture and there is nothing wrong with that, your passionate about it and that’s fine, I'm just saying I think both formats have a good chance of failing or taking a very long time to finally become something that’s mainstream... I wouldn't throw out your DVD player just yet.
At any rate I’m done ranting about this… if you want a HD player go nuts, if you think I a ###### for thinking it’s a complete waste of money and that it is being spoon fed to us as a “need” by large companies trying to stop their bottom dollar hemoraging due to piracy.
Last edited by MaDMaN_26; 08-21-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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08-21-2007, 01:50 PM
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#77
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Voted for Kodos
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in the laundry brig
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in the wake of paramount declaring HD excluisivity an announcment from 20th century fox regarding its blu-ray line up
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=36494
Quote:
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BD is the #1 selling high-definition packaged media. In fact, on a worldwide basis, BD is averaging nearly 70% market-share per week of all high definition titles sold this year and, in the U.S., it is out-performing HD DVD by a margin of 115%.
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Quote:
"Given that Blu-ray has consistently outsold HD DVD all year, and this is the case for any titles released by any studio in both formats, we believe that the time is right for us to accelerate our activities and help convert the nearly 60 million high definition households worldwide into Blu-ray households," noted Mike Dunn, President Worldwide, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment.
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__________________
Thank you for not discussing the outside world
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08-21-2007, 02:49 PM
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#78
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Official CP Photographer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PL15
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I wanted to get a HD DVD player for my Xbox. I guess I'll put it off for now. But for $200 its so tempting.
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08-21-2007, 03:34 PM
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#79
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeper
I wanted to get a HD DVD player for my Xbox. I guess I'll put it off for now. But for $200 its so tempting.
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Why would you put it off now? HD DVD just got a HUGE boost. They'll be around for a long time and just added a LOT of titles to their exclusive catalogue with Paramount and Dreamworks exclusive to HD DVD now.
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08-21-2007, 03:35 PM
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#80
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Watcher of Hockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeper
I wanted to get a HD DVD player for my Xbox. I guess I'll put it off for now. But for $200 its so tempting.
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You should get it, I mean look at all the great titles. 300, Matrix, Shooter, Hot Fuzz, Disturbia, TMNT, ...transformers and bourne ultimatum on its way for Oct. etc etc etc 
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