Toronto is no good

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Dream scenario.

Flames win the draft lottery and complete Mission McKenna.

The Leafs are successful in tanking into the bottom 5 with a shameless final quarter of the season. The Golden Knights continue their rough year and slide out of the playoffs. The Knights win the second lottery jumping from 15 to 5th overall giving the Flames 2 top 5 picks and the Leafs getting bumped out of the top 5 giving their 6th pick to the Bruins.

This would be glorious. Only way to get better would be for the Oilers to also miss the playoffs.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Tough place for the Leafs to be in with this year's pick and next year's pick spoken for. Their best bet is to tank hard for this season only. Their pick this year is top 5 protected. I think Treliving screwed up in pricing his players too high - he needed to make some more room both on the roster, and grab more futures that he can either use at the draft, or use as trade-chips for now. Then the Leafs could have also had a harder time winning games (though in fairness, they may be sucking enough now).

If the Leafs finish bottom 5, they keep their pick, and the 2027 and 2028 picks are spoken for. Maybe adding a top 5 pick into the lineup, and then adding another couple of pieces that can actually contribute - one on the back-end at least - will make the difference. I think it still going to be tight, but with Mathews, Nylander and Knies as established players, it could work. Leafs seem to be drafting decently considering their lack of picks.

Peak pain for the Leafs may still come. Handing over a 7th overall pick to the Bruins would hurt. So do they make a run at 5th or lower? Hard, but it can be done. Toronto has a 5 point lead on the Blues, and the Blues have a game in hand, so it is possible - and the Leafs actually have a much harder strength of schedule left than the Blues or Jets. Peak pain would be getting into that 5th position, but having the 15th or 14th place team win the lottery and jump in front of them. Damn.. imagine giving up a 6th overall pick (+ Fraser Minten + a 5th) for Brandon Carlo.

Yeah, I think Treliving doesn't survive this. Conroy redeemed Treliving's last terrible move here with the Monahan trade with the recent Kadri trade (though the pick is going to be substantially lower, it is in an arguably better draft, and there were more assets as well). The Carlo trade in Washington is WAY worse than the Hamonic trade in Calgary. To only top 5 protect it, and he is giving up that much on top of the 1st round pick? That's essentially similar value to the Weegar trade, and Weegar is a much better asset, but to only top 5 protect it? That's the kind of mistake that will cost you your job IMO, when your job already seemed to be in a precarious state given the situation the team is in.

I think the Leafs will be finding a new GM this off-season. I also think that Treliving won't be hired as a GM in his next gig. I think he will end up as an assistant or associate somewhere, and then either got the Feaster route and take over from an embattled GM somewhere, or go the Maloney route and get promoted into a presidency somewhere. The latter makes more sense to me as I think Treliving is a very poor evaluator of talent and terrible with asset management, but he is very good with the media and stomping out public relations fires. I wonder what teams will need an assistant next season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I disagree with a few points and agree with others. IMO, their homogeneity in style was the downfall of the Leafs. To me it's pretty obvious that Marner, Matthews and to some degree Nylander, all play an outside game. There is no attempt to go through other players to make the tough physical play. Even in the playoffs, those guys refuse to grind it out and go into the slot to get punished to attempt to get a goal. They're all outside guys. The worst is not changing their game in the playoffs. I personally think Matthews is a subpar leader, if not bad. He actually gets a free pass in the media despite not stepping up and playing hard when his team needs him to be the captain. Ignore the Olympics for all these guys because it's a different game of best playing with the best. This combination of Matthews/Marner/Nylander have the same outside style (moreso the first two).


I disagree with you on Tavares. He may be the one player that despite his older age, goes into the slot and gets those dirty goals. He really is that team player who shuts up and does whatever is needed where the younger guys don't do it. Hyman did a lot of those things for the Leafs at a much lesser cost but they couldn't keep him because they were already too top heavy at forward. He skates up the middle and gets hard goals. He may not have the speed, but he's willing to do what other guys don't, and he's never been appreciated.


Reilly was good for a minute but never was that #1 guy they thought he'd be. They gave him too much leeway on his contract when he didn't deserve it. Knowing Treliving's style you know he'd rather build from the defence out if given a chance.

It's not about what Tavares is/does and more about what he's not which is a 1st pairing defenseman. Remember Hyman did all those things and they couldn't keep him because they already had too much money tied up in the core 4. That money should have gone towards a legit 1st pairing defenseman as they likely would have gone deeper in the playoffs with a more balanced team.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not about what Tavares is/does and more about what he's not which is a 1st pairing defenseman. Remember Hyman did all those things and they couldn't keep him because they already had too much money tied up in the core 4. That money should have gone towards a legit 1st pairing defenseman as they likely would have gone deeper in the playoffs with a more balanced team.

If argue they actually needed him. It’s that Matthews and Marner were too alike and likely Marner should have been dealt earlier for a dman. The Shanahan/Dubas fiasco really threw a wrench in things.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bluejays

If argue they actually needed him. It’s that Matthews and Marner were too alike and likely Marner should have been dealt earlier for a dman. The Shanahan/Dubas fiasco really threw a wrench in things.

It's pretty clear that Marner was probably the guy holding the team together regardless of what Leafs fans think as they have fallen apart without him. Mathews and Marner being alike lends into the chemistry they had as Matthews game has fallen off the face of the earth without him. Sure they should have traded Marner rather than let him go for nothing but it appears he's the one guy of all of them that the team should have kept long term and one of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander should have been moved prior.

[Rhett44]

Whenever I watched a Leafs game in the past, it was clear Marner was their best player. You don't even notice Matthew's most nights, but he has a deadly shot and scores a lot.

But Matthew's seems to be injured or has regressed a bit. And they no longer have Marner to drive the play for Matthew's.

[Ba'alzamon]

I have a vague recollection that Marner filled in on defense for a stretch of games one year and was supposedly really good. Maybe they should have converted him to defense full time. If it worked it would have fixed their roster construction (at least in terms of salary allocation by position).

But, we live in this world now. Maybe the Leafs and Oilers should do a Matthews for McDavid trade.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

I have a vague recollection that Marner filled in on defense for a stretch of games one year and was supposedly really good. Maybe they should have converted him to defense full time. If it worked it would have fixed their roster construction (at least in terms of salary allocation by position).

He did it twice, so not really enough of a sample size to determine.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm sure if they retain Marner that they are probably a 100+ point team this season but I don't think that core 4 was ever going to win the cup so maybe this just accelerates the rebuild. I think they have to consider moving Matthews as their long term outlook is pretty bleak.

IMO it all went wrong for the Leafs when they signed Tavares which was more of a luxury signing. They would have been much better off trying to acquire a legit top pairing defenseman as Reilly was never good enough on his own. To win a Stanley Cup your core 4 better include a defenseman and for the Leafs it was all about the forwards and it just never worked out.

They also needed a goalie to battle with the rest in that conference.

[calumniate]

Treliving probably wishing he had the size, skill and draft picks that Buffalo has lol!

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's pretty clear that Marner was probably the guy holding the team together regardless of what Leafs fans think as they have fallen apart without him. Mathews and Marner being alike lends into the chemistry they had as Matthews game has fallen off the face of the earth without him. Sure they should have traded Marner rather than let him go for nothing but it appears he's the one guy of all of them that the team should have kept long term and one of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander should have been moved prior.

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Whenever I watched a Leafs game in the past, it was clear Marner was their best player. You don't even notice Matthew's most nights, but he has a deadly shot and scores a lot.

But Matthew's seems to be injured or has regressed a bit. And they no longer have Marner to drive the play for Matthew's.

Honestly, in the playoffs, Marner was a non-factor for most of the three past years. He was afraid to play physical. Nylander was more fearless on the offensive side but on the defence side he was pretty laissez-faire. I know a lot of people are commenting on Marner based on his Team Canada play, but that team was good for him because he was paired with players who could complement his inadequacies. Much like Binnington not being good on St. Louis and having a good team ahead of him for Team Canada and doing well. In Marner's case he just wasn't present during the playoffs (ignore the stats - largely meaningless points). Play by play him and Matthews specifically were nowhere to be found against harder checking teams. The Leafs simply had a bad mix. I don't care what anyone says, neither are franchise players who can carry the team single handedly by example when a team needs them most in tight checking games. Players like that come rarely, like McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, but you also have Tkachuk and Bennett who will play out of their comfort zone when it's needed. Matthews and Marner don't do that.