[Trade] Weegar to Utah for Maatta, Castagna, 3 x 2026 2nd rounders

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Shazam

According to the radio the deal happened super fast, initiated by Utah.

Sounds like there hadn't been a lot of offers/talk around Weegar then.

Maybe a lowball offer from the Sens.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Flames sure are gonna make a Ruckus in this draft.

I bet the Flames are going to look to package some picks to move up. There are only 50 contracts available. If they have too many good prospects, they are just going to lose some outright.

On the other side of the coin, there are teams that have traded a lot of picks and need to have something to show for their drafts and need to field a minor league team. Some teams will be willing to trade down to fill in some picks they have traded.

Carolina has a first round pick, but no second, third, fifth or seventh. They may be willing to trade their first for a couple other draft picks.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Parayko has a fairly long track record of being a #1 D. How long has Weegar been a #1 D? I argue never, hence the disparity in trade value. Weegar got traded out of Florida because he kept making costly errors, especially in the playoffs. Here he settled his game down, got a 20 goal season, and and was looking like a top pairing defencmen for around 2 seasons. Now he is isn't again. Parayko has also been declining, but I would say he is still a much better defencemen than Weegar is.


2 seconds = a late first, right? 2 early seconds don't equal a late first, however. Plus you get another second on top of this. Plus a big center prospect who is fast and tenacious, and has improved.


I think that accumulates to around 2 first round picks by my count. One first round pick closer to the middle, one late round pick. That's a decent haul for Weegar. It is not the homerun that Lindholm and Markstrom was, but it is still a really good haul. I think people will look back at this as Conroy's 4th best deal to date, and clearly in the 'green' side of the spectrum, rather than the 'red' side. How far into the green is debatable.


I think once the Flames use those picks, then people will also be a bit happier with the return. Flames draft well, and a pick or two (plus Castanga) might create some excitement here (in fact, I expect it to).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I bet the Flames are going to look to package some picks to move up. There are only 50 contracts available. If they have too many good prospects, they are just going to lose some outright.

On the other side of the coin, there are teams that have traded a lot of picks and need to have something to show for their drafts and need to field a minor league team. Some teams will be willing to trade down to fill in some picks they have traded.

Carolina has a first round pick, but no second, third, fifth or seventh. They may be willing to trade their first for a couple other draft picks.

Carolina looooves moving down and accumulating picks

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Since 1963, only 313 players drafted in the second round have scored at least 100 points in their career. 313 players in 63 years of drafting. Only 69 players have scored 500 points. Only 8 players drafted in the second round have played 1000 NHL games.

Do you expect Weegar to get to 1000GP and 500 points?

[dino7c]

Flames won't be making all those picks IMO

[Nelson]

I like the trade for at least the following reasons.

-Weegar was having a down year.

-The Flames couldn’t retain on Weegar, assuming they wanted to use a retention spot on Kadri or Coleman.

-Weegar is already well into his 30s, being 32, and he’s signed for 4 more years. The risk that Weegar’s contract becomes poor value because of the aging curve, has transferred from Calgary to Utah.

-I know people are concerned because a 1st is more likely to lead to a good player than a 2nd. However, I think there’s another way to increase the likelihood of getting good players out of draft picks: being good at scouting and drafting. There is strong evidence that Conroy is good at scouting and drafting. Given this, it is a legitimate strategy to get more, lower quality picks, rather than less, higher quality picks (up to a point), because you might end up with more good players. Bottom line: I have Conniefidence, and I believe fans will look back on this trade positively, because Conroy will use these picks well.

-Jonathan Castagna may only project as a bottom-6 centre, but he does sound like a legitimate prospect.

-Lastly, this trade is a strong signal the organization is doing a more complete rebuild than it has ever done before. The rebuild started some time ago, and this is another move in that direction.

[moncton golden flames]

Does this mean the arena won't get finished?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames won't be making all those picks IMO

Yup, there's just the reality that there will be no room on the farm for these guys eventually.

[browna]

Kadri Coleman and especially Weeger all wanted to be here. Andersson too, and they committed knowing things might be lean. Some didn’t, or weren’t going to be part of the plan so they made their decision and were moved Zadorov, Lindholm, Toffoli etc and the others committed to stay, because they had the chance to leave and didn’t.

At that point Conroy knew what he had to work with, a corps of guys committed to the team and city to build around and use the cap space and picks to get good players and more picks and build a younger, but still balanced roster.

Problem ends up being Conroy isn’t successful in his plan that has played out these past years on the acquisition front to get that balanced roster (skewing younger) and now he has had to switch gear again because he is behind his original timeline.

Zero chance that the idea when took over, and a new building, while not 100% in sight but mostly in sight, looking to happen, that this team would be still at basically ground zero when that building opened.

But, because of his lack of success in the trade and free agent market, he is now switching gears and going to those guys who were identified to be the leaders who’d help usher in the next wave, and basically telling them to go.

He can make these deals for decent players, and a lot of picks and hope he can turn those picks into good players down the road, or, even better, using that draft capital to be replenishing some of the character and leadership he’s just shipped out, using some of those picks by hopefully having trades land on his lap.

The way he talked about Raantnen last year when he was traded twice definitely sounded like he was on the radar of Raantnen became a UFA pickup. He didn’t or wasn’t able to use cap space as a leverage peice as he talked about and now the cap has gone up. Not through lack of him trying from what I’ve heard, but it didn’t go as easily as he thought.

Bottom line I have my doubts where this is going, and caught off guard that Weeger, the most committed and seemingly excited player to be here, was forced to move on, is jarring.

I get the contract and the play but you can say that about a lot of guys on a team that put it all in last year and is now gutted. There are things about him which were important for this team as to why he was acquired and why he wanted to be a Flame through this, and that still wasn’t good enough to stay and have as an anchor, leadership wise?

It is not clutching pearls or resistant to change, I just don’t know how the Flames replace these guys and their leadership and character in the short term. And that leadership and character are vital requirements for a younger team and collection of players like a Parekh to have some sort of role model or models to emulate (Phaneuf had Hamrilk as a simple example). Otherwise you’ll end up with another Buffalo (prior to this year) Chicago with Bedard, or pre and even post McDavid Oilers, with a bunch of talented youngsters flailing around the ice, without a proper balanced roster and strong leaders to support their development.

Bottom line I think Conroy underestimated players willingness to come here, and miscalculated the market in acquiring talent and how hard it actually is to attract players and get them in the door. So now he’s had to resort to ditching the players he counted on and promised them that he would build a team up around them. So now he’s changing course and seeing what he can get for anyone left, and then hope that those pieces he has to use on his next attempt at reshaping a balanced roster goes better than the last 3+ years of trying.

Just my opinion.

[InternationalVillager]

FWIW I am not very high on Radim Mrtka so #8 overall pick….not in my eyes.

[the-rasta-masta]

Flames also may be able to salvage some value in Maatta as well. He’s been serviceable everywhere but Utah this season.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames won't be making all those picks IMO

I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames take a flyer on someone like Sillinger(RFA), Johnson($1.8M x 1) or Perfetti(RFA) in the offseason.

[bluejays]

Would love to see 2 of the 2nd's packaged to the Leafs for their 2027 1st. Would be a good gamble for the Leafs to fall next year.

[browna]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Would love to see 2 of the 2nd's packaged to the Leafs for their 2027 1st. Would be a good gamble for the Leafs to fall next year.

Leafs have to use that as part of the McDavid acquisition.

[the-rasta-masta]

Also with a quick look it seems like the Coyotes held 42 picks over 4 drafts from 2021-24 which seems like the record. Flames are at 37 with more trades likely to come. Coyotes had 25 picks in the first 3 rounds and Flames have 20 currently, either one more first rounder held by the Flames.

This is the most rebiggly the Flames have ever sat.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Also with a quick look it seems like the Coyotes held 42 picks over 4 drafts from 2021-24 which seems like the record. Flames are at 37 with more trades likely to come. Coyotes had 25 picks in the first 3 rounds and Flames have 20 currently, either one more first rounder held by the Flames.

If only the Flames would rebuild!

[mile]

Originally Posted by browna

Kadri Coleman and especially Weeger all wanted to be here. Andersson too, and they committed knowing things might be lean. Some didn’t, or weren’t going to be part of the plan so they made their decision and were moved Zadorov, Lindholm, Toffoli etc and the others committed to stay, because they had the chance to leave and didn’t.

At that point Conroy knew what he had to work with, a corps of guys committed to the team and city to build around and use the cap space and picks to get good players and more picks and build a younger, but still balanced roster.

Problem ends up being Conroy isn’t successful in his plan that has played out these past years on the acquisition front to get that balanced roster (skewing younger) and now he has had to switch gear again because he is behind his original timeline.

Zero chance that the idea when took over, and a new building, while not 100% in sight but mostly in sight, looking to happen, that this team would be still at basically ground zero when that building opened.

But, because of his lack of success in the trade and free agent market, he is now switching gears and going to those guys who were identified to be the leaders who’d help usher I the next wave, and basically telling them to go. He can make these deals for decent players, get picks and hope he can turn those picks into good players down the road, or, even better, replenishing some of the character and leadership he’s just shipped out, using some of those picks by hopefully having trades land on his lap.

The way he talked about Raantnen last year when he was traded twice definitely sounded like he was on the radar of Raantnen became a FA. He didn’t or wasn’t able to use cap space as a leverage peice and now the cap has gone up.

Bottom line I have my doubts where this is going, and caught off guard that Weeger, the most committed and seemingly excited player to be here, was forced to move on, is jarring. I get the contract and the play but you can say that about a lot of guys on a team that put it all in last year and is now gutted. There are things about him which were important for this team as to why he was acquired and why he wanted to be a Flame through this, and that still wasn’t good enough to stay?

It is not clutching pearls or resistant to change, I just don’t know how the Flames replace these guys and their leadership and character in the short term. And that leadership and character are vital for a younger team and collection of players like a Parekh to have some sort of role model or models to emulate (Phaneuf had Hamrilk as a simple example). Otherwise you’ll end up with another Buffalo, Chicago, or pre and even post McDavid Oilers with a bunch of talented youngsters flailing around the ice, with or a proper balanced roster and leaders to support their development.

Bottom line I think Conroy underestimated players willingness to come here, and miscalculated the market in acquiring talent and how hard it actually is to attract players and get them in the door. So now he’s had to resort to ditching the players he counted on and promised them that he would build a team up around them. So now he’s changing course and seeing what he can get for anyone left, and then hope that those pieces he has to use on his next attempt at reshaping a balanced roster goes better than the last 3+ years of trying.

Just my opinion.

I just don't see it this way at all, it doesn't seem like Conroy has been aggressive at all in pursuing UFAs during his time as GM. He knows building through the draft is the way to do it and has stuck to that, I haven't seen any gear switching or changing course from him. The commitment of the vets who chose to stay is commendable but it doesn't make them players to build around.


If the Flames didn't have Whitecloud I would be concerned about the young D not having anyone for guidance. But he has fit in quite well.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Sounds like there hadn't been a lot of offers/talk around Weegar then.

Maybe a lowball offer from the Sens.

IDK Conroy said he had been talking to Utah for a while about a "concept"

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by dino7c

IDK Conroy said he had been talking to Utah for a while about a "concept"

Maybe Conroy did some inception.