I have more than a few friends who either already have a plan or are in the stages where they’re getting serious about figuring one out in terms of where they could live and the logistics around it.
I guess the best we can hope for is that house prices don’t totally evaporate and some buyers still exist. Otherwise losing that will suck but not sure what else you can do.
There is no way house prices hold on. When you look at the population of Alberta it is entirely reasonable to assume that we could lose 30% of our population quickly. People who recently moved here from other provinces for the promise of good jobs would peace out as they did not sign up to leave Canada.
The jobs would also leave. Any job that is not directly tied to the land and resources would move their head office. As the jobs leave and unemployment skyrockets, more people will leave as the tumbling dominoes pick up speed.
Even if we only saw an exodus of 5-10% of the population, that would likely be enough to gut the housing values. But when you think about how many people have moved to Alberta in the last 30 years, I really doubt any of those people are interested in leaving Canada and the exodus would be much larger than expected. Calgary's population has more than doubled in 30 years.
This move could destroy the financial stability of millions of people. So stupid.
If this is seriously moving forward, we need a process that I haven't heard proposed. One issue is that all these promises get made, people vote, and like Brexit, once those promises are found to be bull####, it's too late.
1) petition for referendum
2) referendum vote on condition of approval of The Deal.
3) the real work, negotiation of the parameters of separation. The Deal. Clearly we need to know if we are voting to be independent or a US territory. But also our pension cut, costs, deals with FN's, etc.
4) a final binding vote on The Deal
5) Separation
Brexit jumped from 2 to 5, then did 3 without 4. This is dumb. No one should want this. We need to ensure we get to vote on The Deal, and that we are not bound by fantasy promises peddled by morons of deceit. Step 2 should not be binding in any way, and anyone saying it should is doing so because they know the facts and reality are not on their side, and want to hoodwink you before you are shown reality.
I expect they might do something like tying approval of a deal to a provincial election to muddy the waters with partisan politics.
I have more than a few friends who either already have a plan or are in the stages where they’re getting serious about figuring one out in terms of where they could live and the logistics around it.
I guess the best we can hope for is that house prices don’t totally evaporate and some buyers still exist. Otherwise losing that will suck but not sure what else you can do.
I talked to a guy last week (well educated, professional and maybe not what you would expect for a separatist voter), and he thinks that housing prices will go higher with a separation vote, because a lot of people will want to move here. I can't see that, and I think that there is not a hope of that.
Despite him being a well educated person in all though, it's futile to try to convince these people of the alternative. They're using reasoning and facts that are just pure fantasy. We discussed a lot, and I'm not going to get into every bit of it here, but he was hanging his hat on "we have so much energy wealth that we could be like Dubai" sort of things.
I responded that "I'm sure that Suncor or CNRL are going to be totally cool with the province just taking ownership of them and that won't be a big deal?" On the other hand, he talks about this socialist government in Canada that has never worked anywhere. As if that little nationalization idea to fund everything isn't socialist? And that doesn't even get into more left-leaning countries like northern Europe.
I mean it's just non-sensical, and countering all this misinformation and pure disinformation is going to be gargantuan.
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These recent polls seem to all show similar results, which is that the hardcore Maple MAGA dips***s who would definitely vote to leave are still a small minority. It also shows that the separatists' case for leaving hasn't been very convincing. And that's because they clearly have no plan whatsoever for what would happen if their side actually won. It's all based on fantasy and a big steaming pile of bulls***.
I'm betting a lot of these people who are maybe leaning towards the leave side but still on the fence are having serious second thoughts about what this would mean for their CPP, health care, property values, Canadian citizenship, and the futures of their children/grandchildren, etc... There's a LOT to lose here, and these separatist clowns have refused to answer any of these questions seriously. When it comes down to getting into that voting booth, will these people be willing to throw their entire lives down the toilet for what would be an incredibly scary, uncertain, stressful, and stupid future?
I expect Trump or whomever is President if Trump is gone will use any sort of independence referendum as an opening to enter Alberta. I don't expect we will have any sort of final vote, deal presented to us, opportunity to leave or sell real estate, or anything of that sort once this goes ahead. The results of the referendum don't even matter, if we ever even see the results.
Nenshi and the Alberta centrists should start a new party if the traditional/national NDP is being a drag. Any of the traditional NDP MLAs or candidates such as Hoffman can stick with the current party if they feel that a more left option is appropriate.
Can't we just start calling the people stupid to their face, who would only vote for someone based on party name / never vote for someone based on party name.
Like it's just so stupid. We have people running all over Alberta talking about the economic disaster that was the NDP while supporting a party that lights billions of fire annually, and can only imagine linear economic development within established industries.
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Proud maga piece of crap Todd Loewen, cabinet minister, announced he watched the turning point hillbilly jamboree half time show.
I wonder why the seperatists are courting the US?
Because without the US bailing them out, going separate solo will be a complete unmitigated disaster. If they can make a deal with the US, it may only be very painful. That's my theory, anyways.
I talked to a guy last week (well educated, professional and maybe not what you would expect for a separatist voter), and he thinks that housing prices will go higher with a separation vote, because a lot of people will want to move here. I can't see that, and I think that there is not a hope of that.
Despite him being a well educated person in all though, it's futile to try to convince these people of the alternative. They're using reasoning and facts that are just pure fantasy. We discussed a lot, and I'm not going to get into every bit of it here, but he was hanging his hat on "we have so much energy wealth that we could be like Dubai" sort of things.
I responded that "I'm sure that Suncor or CNRL are going to be totally cool with the province just taking ownership of them and that won't be a big deal?" On the other hand, he talks about this socialist government in Canada that has never worked anywhere. As if that little nationalization idea to fund everything isn't socialist? And that doesn't even get into more left-leaning countries like northern Europe.
I mean it's just non-sensical, and countering all this misinformation and pure disinformation is going to be gargantuan.
Suncor in particular I can see moving their HQ back to Mississauga or Montreal to be closer to their Canadian assets. Then they would manage their foreign assets (Colorado, Alberta) from Canada.
CNRL probably moves to BC... or maybe Manitoba.
Cenovus maybe goes to Saskatchewan. Set up shop in the Lloydminster area?
All of those companies are already set up to manage non-Canadian assets so moving their HQ and treating Alberta as another foreign asset is a much safer move than trying to stay in Alberta and see what happens when the USA invades to gut the place of natural resources. If any/all of those companies move out it would devastate Calgary.
Then you get into Alberta's fledgling tech sector and the exodus will be massive. Benevity, Critical Mass, etc. have absolutely no need to stay in Calgary. Moving to Vancouver or Toronto works in their favour as the markets there are way stronger for tech and any people that they lose through the move can be easily replaced.
Anyone who does not think that is the most likely outcome is ignoring reality. We already have the example of how much damage the Quebec referendum had on Quebec's economy just from "asking the question". And then if our ####bag government does anything to tip the scales from "asking the question" to "making it happen" then the exodus will be dramatically worse.
Because without the US bailing them out, going separate solo will be a complete unmitigated disaster. If they can make a deal with the US, it may only be very painful. That's my theory, anyways.
If Albertans think dealing with the RoC is unwelcoming, wait until they start making demands on the US government.
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Maybe there are some underpinnings of anti-immigration but realistically it is about trying to find ways to pinch pennies even though this would result in negligible savings. Racist, no.it doesn't always boil down to racism like you and others jump on every time. You hit on all your key buzzwords in that previous post of yours but you forgot about Nazi. I'm disappointed you didn't work that into your diatribe.
I'm starting to feel like a broken record but it's endlessly amusing to me that suddenly all these people are okay with face coverings when they were super upset about them during covid.
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I think if you find yourself waving a black flag, outside of pirate cosplay, you're probably on the wrong side of something. Not exclusively. But probably.
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I think if you find yourself waving a black flag, outside of pirate cosplay, you're probably on the wrong side of something. Not exclusively. But probably.
Forgive my ignorance, but didn't the Forever Canada petition (with 4x the amount of signatures as the I'm With Stupid petition) establish legally that any question around separation had to be posed a certain way?
Shockingly the ucp changed the rules about that. Before that change the question was referred to the courts by Elections Alberta as to whether it was unconstitutional and if it qualified for petition status.
