[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Seems fine.
Conroy making it clear the no extension impacted offers; so not surprised the return is meh.
We will suck for the next 24 months & hopefully draft some great talent.
It'll be 3-5 years before Conroy's work can really be completely judged.

I hope the lesson for this FO is no matter your relationship with the player, there’s very little hope they will do you a solid and extend when they’re on the cusp of free agency.

However they look at the vets they’ll be dealing over the next year or so, you almost have to assume no extension and instead deal them with more term to maximize returns. Whether that’s a FO lesson or ownership lesson, remains to be seen.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Njord

If you're this upset by what the Flames got today imagine how upset you'd be by the paltry return he would of got last year. Flames would have been lucky to get a second rounder

Andersson should have been able to get a better return than Carlo last year. We didn’t trade him for our playoff run last year and I was assured by a number of posters that we need to wait and see what the return is. Well it’s here and it stinks.

Well, they know who they are and I hope they can look back and realize their thought process was dumb and wrong.

[Manhattanboy]

If Raz is instrumental in eliminating the Oilers I will give this trade an A.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

It was a sellers market last year. Look at the Brandon Carlo trade.

So the Carlo Trade was 1st, 4th, and Miten (who was a 2nd round pick in 22) for a non rental.

Flames got the 1st, a conditional 2nd that could be also be a 1st, Whitecloud and Wiebe as a rental trade. Will have to see the trade tree once we know what happens with Whitecloud. It is one of those trades that we will have to look back in 3 years, it is a classic rebuild trade.

[GioforPM]

It's a bit wild that people are acting like there were better deals out there, like Conroy deliberately took an inferior deal.

The market for Andersson is any team with a hole at top 4 RD, who thinks they are contending, which had assets to use in a rental trade and who Andersson would go to )to the extent he used his LNTC). That narrowed the ground considerably.

Taking Whiteckoud is likely as much about Vegas roster spots as anything else.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Andersson should have been able to get a better return than Carlo last year. We didn’t trade him for our playoff run last year and I was assured by a number of posters that we need to wait and see what the return is. Well it’s here and it stinks.

Well, they know who they are and I hope they can look back and realize their thought process was dumb and wrong.

OK I'll bite.....what is it you think would have been a "good" return?

[Sandman]

Some of us were talking in the draft thread about the 2027 draft, and how it’s looking to be above- average in quality in the top-end- so it’s a slick move IMO to have so many high-end picks.

[Thunderball]

Having had a couple hours to digest this, its just such a "rebiggle" move. Nothing makes the Flames better for the next 3-5 years but there's a clear element of not wanting to be a lot worse. On paper, its a 1st, 2nd, an NHLer and a dark horse prospect. On paper, they got their ask. Reality is, if the team wants to be competitive when they move to Scotia Place, this is a massive L with the asset that should have been able to attract a solid prospect in the package.

They also weakened their 2026 Vegas pick, and showed they are terrified to short term fail. Only saving grace is finding someone to Carlo level overpay for Whitecloud, but that is really clearly not their plan. Maloney is clearly in charge and they actually think this is a borderline playoff team.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I stand by my comment. It was a garbage trade and should have someone fired, considering what we could have gotten last year.

If you want to defend the trade that is fine. I think it is the worst trade we have made in years, considering what we could have gotten at least years deadline.

It's very frustrating that it's Vegas, and it's disappointing they missed out on potentially better offers because Andersson wouldn't re-sign anywhere, but really it's not that garbage.

Let's look at comparable trades of dmen that were traded the last two years (going back to the 2024 draft):

Carlo for 2026 1st, Minten, 4th
Schenn for 2026 2nd, 4th
Walman for 2026 1st
Dumolin for 2026 2nd
Seth Jones for 2026 1st and Spencer Knight (lots of term and retention)
Chychrun for Nick Jensen + 3rd
Sergachev for JJ Moser, Geekie, 2nd

Andersson for 2027 1st, 2028 2nd (that can become a 1st), Whitecloud, and Wiebe.

The Andersson return is pretty much better than that bunch, it's actually similar to Jones and Sergachev but those guys were traded with lots of term left. Whitecloud is better than Jensen and Ottawa only got a 3rd on top of him.

I know you don't like Whitecloud but that player could easily become another 1st in the next 14 months. His contract is great and he's very comparable to Carlo.

I defended you this week but for a guy who was pretty adamant the return didn't matter and to just move Andersson you are sure mad about the return.

[Phil Russell]

It is an expected return, maybe a little better than expected given the circumstances. The only real question in my mind, leaving aside minor quibbles about trading with LV or changes in late draft order, is whether we could have gotten more for Raz last year--that's possible, but also speculative given his poor play. That said, I would like to see the Flames move on C and K and be in the driver's seat on these late contract trades moving forward. Stop dreaming about the playoffs. For now.

[Coach]

So the team needs to tank, but also needs to have a competitive team for the new building?...in 18 months?

People are insane. Choose a lane.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Having had a couple hours to digest this, its just such a "rebiggle" move. Nothing makes the Flames better for the next 3-5 years but there's a clear element of not wanting to be a lot worse. On paper, its a 1st, 2nd, an NHLer and a dark horse prospect. On paper, they got their ask. Reality is, if the team wants to be competitive when they move to Scotia Place, this is a massive L.

They also weakened their 2026 Vegas pick, and showed they are terrified to short term fail. Only saving grace is finding someone to Carlo level overpay for Whitecloud, but that is really clearly not their plan. Maloney is clearly in charge and they actually think this is a borderline playoff team.

100% disagree.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Most average fans don’t get overly excited about rebuilds.

What I mean is the volume on the Conroy interview is very low

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sa226

There a part of me that is surprised that Vegas was willing to include Whitecloud.

I known on the surface it's underwhelming from our perspective, but he's a fixture in their top 4.

I thought Vegas was after Andersson to replace Pietrangelo. Instead they paid a 1st and a 2nd to basically upgrade Whitecloud. It's a definite upgrade for them, but how much of an upgrade?

Great way to put it, and in that light, it shows that this was not a great trade for Vegas. A 1st and a 2nd, to upgrade from Whitecloud to Andersson isn't terrible, but is it a great trade? Does it warrant an a?

Not sure that it does

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's very frustrating that it's Vegas, and it's disappointing they missed out on potentially better offers because Andersson wouldn't re-sign anywhere, but really it's not that garbage.

Let's look at comparable trades of dmen that were traded the last two years (going back to the 2024 draft):

Carlo for 2026 1st, Minten, 4th
Schenn for 2026 2nd, 4th
Walman for 2026 1st
Dumolin for 2026 2nd
Seth Jones for 2026 1st and Spencer Knight (lots of term and retention)
Chychrun for Nick Jensen + 3rd
Sergachev for JJ Moser, Geekie, 2nd

Andersson for 2027 1st, 2028 2nd (that can become a 1st), Whitecloud, and Wiebe.

The Andersson return is pretty much better than that bunch, it's actually similar to Jones and Sergachev but those guys were traded with lots of term left. Whitecloud is better than Jensen and Ottawa only got a 3rd on top of him.

I know you don't like Whitecloud but that player could easily become another 1st in the next 14 months. His contract is great and he's very comparable to Carlo.

I defended you this week but for a guy who was pretty adamant the return didn't matter and to just move Andersson you are sure mad about the return.

I didn't care about the return months ago when I wanted us to tank. We aren't going to out tank Vancouver now, so will not be guaranteed a top 3 pick and game changer.

We also picked up Whitecloud which doesn't make our team too much worse. I wanted to gut the team, not pick up more vets to keep us out of the bottom of the league. And stop us from playing more younger players.

I hate the trade.

[FlamesFanInEdmonton]

So will the Flames trade Whitecloud right away since he has 2 years left on his deal? Or walk him into the last year of his deal and trade him to Vegas because we have no other options?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I didn't care about the return months ago when I wanted us to tank. We aren't going to out tank Vancouver now, so will not be guaranteed a top 3 pick and game changer.

We also picked up Whitecloud which doesn't make our team too much worse. I wanted to gut the team, not pick up more vets to keep us out of the bottom of the league.

False
In a poll posted early January you voted the Flames should trade their veterans regardless of the return
Not months
Weeks
Two to be specific

[GioforPM]

Even if you think Carlo's return was better, maybe other GMs think that was an overpay. There's such a thing as a bad deal.

How many GMs have paid a first to get rid of a contract since the Monahan trade.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Great way to put it, and in that light, it shows that this was not a great trade for Vegas. A 1st and a 2nd, to upgrade from Whitecloud to Andersson isn't terrible, but is it a great trade? Does it warrant an a?

Not sure that it does

Reminds me of a certain Hamonic deal a few years ago that had this board pretty much in agreement that the Flames got fleeced.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot im reading things like "disaster", "total fail, "fireable move".

Pretty amazing.

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by Robbob

So the Carlo Trade was 1st, 4th, and Miten (who was a 2nd round pick in 22) for a non rental.

Flames got the 1st, a conditional 2nd that could be also be a 1st, Whitecloud and Wiebe as a rental trade. Will have to see the trade tree once we know what happens with Whitecloud. It is one of those trades that we will have to look back in 3 years, it is a classic rebuild trade.

I think everybody knows Andersson will sign with LV unless the amount is too low. So it's not 100% a retal trade.