[PGT] Flames 2-1 overtime win in LA

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calgARI

The Calgary Flames played really well against the Los Angeles Kings, carried the play pretty much the whole game. I was impressed.

And it was fun!!

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Red Potato Standing By

I would say 90 percent want a good pick and proper rebuild, they are just not obnoxious about it.

Exactly, everyone wants the same thing but the reality is the vets won't be moving until the new year. There is no point getting up and down on a single result, especially when this team is probably going to win 15-20 more games. The team is still trending to get a top pick. They have played more games then a lot of the teams and sitting near the bottom.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Is this true?

I don't think I've seen any of the most vocal guys (Rhett44, Monahammer, etc) that want a tank complained about any of these things.

People want them to move the veterans like Kadri and Coleman that help them win now, but also don't help them at all long term because of their age.

I don't think I've seen any people complain that the prospects look good, in fact I think part of the argument of moving some of the veterans is to open more space for some of the other guys like Kuznetsov that have been in the org for 3-4 years already without getting a real look (Kerins, Stromgren, etc)

Well the objective seems to be for the Flames to lose, Wolf and Kuznetsov in particular are helping them win, so it is a bit of deductive reasoning on my part to assume they are a source of frustration. I have never seen the objective be to maximize return on the players being traded, rather the objective seems to be that the Flames lose.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Scotty Bowman was opposed to the OTL point for that exact reason. It’s basic game theory. If you play to keep the tie for the last minutes of regulation, you’re going to get one point with a 50-50 chance of a second point. Try too hard to score, you risk a bad turnover and then you get nothing.

A 3-2-1 point system would fix that

[Goriders]

That game and the Red Wings game really accentuated the need for a sniper in the lineup.

It takes the Flames 30 to 40 shots to do what it takes other teams to do in 15 to 20 shots.

They end up having to put out almost twice as much effort as the other team to score the same amount of goals. That’s a tough way to play.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/2000106982469144846

The "Let's go" at the 0:13 mark is hilarious.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

A 3-2-1 point system would fix that

Obvious answer.

They seem to prioritize ticket sales rather than teams loading up after a win streak. Gotta make every team think they're in it until March

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The frustration is real for some though. They see Wolf and curse that he is a good goalie, they are frustrated that Kuznetsov has come up and stepped right in as a top 4 dman, they view with dismay that Hunter B looks like he could be a NHL dman. These are all factors that contribute to the Flames winning and it is disappointing for them. It is a perspective.

This is not true at all.

We just want to see the old guys who are actively hurting our teams future like Kadri, Coleman and Andersson traded like yesterday. Every day you wait to trade them is screwing our future up more, with how good they have all been playing.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Is this true?

I don't think I've seen any of the most vocal guys (Rhett44, Monahammer, etc) that want a tank complained about any of these things.

People want them to move the veterans like Kadri and Coleman that help them win now, but also don't help them at all long term because of their age.

I don't think I've seen any people complain that the prospects look good, in fact I think part of the argument of moving some of the veterans is to open more space for some of the other guys like Kuznetsov that have been in the org for 3-4 years already without getting a real look (Kerins, Stromgren, etc)

Yeah I think both sides would do better not improperly framing the view of the other side.

And honestly there isn't much difference on this site anyway. I think 95% of people are aligned on where this franchise needs to go. They just handle the ups and downs of that process differently on a day to day basis.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

This is not true at all.

We just want to see the old guys who are actively hurting our teams future like Kadri, Coleman and Andersson traded like yesterday. Every day you wait to trade them is screwing our future up more, with how good they have all been playing.

Coleman was a big part of this win. Kadri wasn't. Rasmus was in between. If they want to lose they should trade Wolf.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman was a big part of this win. Kadri wasn't. Rasmus was in between. If they want to lose they should trade Wolf.

I believe they showed a graphic the other day that over the last 3 to 4 weeks, Kadri is 6th in the NHL in scoring and Rasmus is 18th.

They are playing amazing hockey. They are helping us win. In most years that is a good thing, but unfortunately when you are trying to pick top 3 it is a negative right now.

The difference between picking top 3 and 12th to me, is astronomical.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I think both sides would do better not improperly framing the view of the other side.

And honestly there isn't much difference on this site anyway. I think 95% of people are aligned on where this franchise needs to go. They just handle the ups and downs of that process differently on a day to day basis.

That's well said. The difference between the views has been belaboured for two and a half months, there's really nothing else to say about it. But if it wasn't discussed in each and every thread, we've got to talk about things like actual gameplay and performance. Who watches sports for that?

[dammage79]

Flames are gonna draft where they draft with their pick. But they should definitely find a way to affect where the LV pick ends up. Beef up the Knights competition for a playoff spot with their trades.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I believe they showed a graphic the other day that over the last 3 to 4 weeks, Kadri is 6th in the NHL in scoring and Rasmus is 18th.

They are playing amazing hockey. They are helping us win. In most years that is a good thing, but unfortunately when you are trying to pick top 3 it is a negative right now.

The difference between picking top 3 and 12th to me, is astronomical.

You keep forgetting where they actually are. And cherry picking 3-4 weeks over a season isn't really a great argument. But I looked it up and over the last month Kadri is 24th and Andersson 28th. https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seas...ers-stats.html

Over the last 2 weeks neither are in the top 50. https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seas...ers-stats.html.

So I suspect your source was wrong.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I believe they showed a graphic the other day that over the last 3 to 4 weeks, Kadri is 6th in the NHL in scoring and Rasmus is 18th.

They are playing amazing hockey. They are helping us win. In most years that is a good thing, but unfortunately when you are trying to pick top 3 it is a negative right now.

The difference between picking top 3 and 12th to me, is astronomical.

Sure, but what you aren't accounting for is that their little hot streak has turned them into hot commodities, thus increasing their trade value. There's more to building a team than a single top pick. It's about maximizing asset returns at their peak in a given situation. Trading these players when they were playing like dog#### at the start of the season gives you a substantially lower return than if you trade them now, or even closer to the trade deadline as teams become very desperate for the types of players that Kadri, Coleman, and Andersson are or could be for them in the playoffs.

What I'm saying is that instead of focusing on a single top pick (which is already a crapshoot due to the lottery, and even more of a crapshoot knowing that there are plenty of legitimate busts in the top 10), you give yourself more potential assets by turning the current veteran talent into better quality or quantity of futures, and that only happens if they're playing well and winning games. Nobody wants losing players on their team in most cases, they want winners.

Winning and losing games is a double edged sword that you're going to have to wrap your head around, because quite frankly, you're thinking about this far too simplistically.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The frustration is real for some though. They see Wolf and curse that he is a good goalie, they are frustrated that Kuznetsov has come up and stepped right in as a top 4 dman, they view with dismay that Hunter B looks like he could be a NHL dman. These are all factors that contribute to the Flames winning and it is disappointing for them. It is a perspective.

Jesus christ. Literally nobody is cursing that Dustin Wolf is a good goalie lol.

Unless you're maybe taking the "goddammit Wolf, we're trying to tank" comments way more seriously than they're intended (which, for anyone keeping score, are intended to be somewhere in the range of 0-0.6% serious).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Jesus christ. Literally nobody is cursing that Dustin Wolf is a good goalie lol.

Unless you're maybe taking the "goddammit Wolf, we're trying to tank" comments way more seriously than they're intended (which, for anyone keeping score, are intended to be somewhere in the range of 0-0.6% serious).

There are many posts in this thread and the game thread complaining about the Flames winning the game. His glove save on the 2 on 1 was probably the save that won the game, Flames go down 2-0 there and this game is probably over. So I just assume that the people complaining are referencing those that contribute to the win.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the objective seems to be for the Flames to lose, Wolf and Kuznetsov in particular are helping them win, so it is a bit of deductive reasoning on my part to assume they are a source of frustration. I have never seen the objective be to maximize return on the players being traded, rather the objective seems to be that the Flames lose.

The objective is McKenna

[Lewis_D]

Frosty's been fun to watch this season, I feel like we're watching him truly finding what his identity is as an NHLer and becoming comfortable in that role. You could make the gripe he should have that figured out right now after 4+ seasons but we've seen plenty of cases where it takes players a little longer, especially after changing teams mid season last year.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Lewis_D

Frosty's been fun to watch this season, I feel like we're watching him truly finding what his identity is as an NHLer and becoming comfortable in that role. You could make the gripe he should have that figured out right now after 4+ seasons but we've seen plenty of cases where it takes players a little longer, especially after changing teams mid season last year.

He was a massive bright spot for me in the preseason, and I'm really interested in seeing him get more (and more important) draws if Backlund misses games.