Jets, NHL in talks to restore team's original records

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Winnipeg: The cultural, music, food, and arts capital of the Winnipeg Metropolitan Region, with the most incredible experiences Canada has to offer east of Headingley and west of Taché.

You made one mistake. Everything east of Yorkton is Newfoundland.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, if the records are by franchise, you could see it pretty easily.

The two Jets teams are two completely different franchises. They just grabbed the same name as an older team.

I mean, no one is claiming King Clancy’s numbers in Ottawa these days, just because he played for a team with the same name in Ottawa years before.

I get it.

I'm just saying if you lived in Winnipeg since 1980 I understand the rationale.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not for me.

I wouldn't want to look up the Jets record for goals by a right wing, and then have to head over to Utah / Arizona list and see where the answer lies.

That sucks.

Yeah it matters to the fans. It's not just about "looking them up" either. It's about the history and where/how it is celebrated.

I have to chuckle at posters who call it a silly waste of time or suggest the NHL has better things to do. They really are doing this for the Winnipeg fans, so it strikes me that other team's fans are the ones wasting their time by arguing about it.

The history of the game is important IMO and they are right to do things to protect it.

Honestly the records and history of the club when in Atlanta really should belong to Atlanta. It's just that no one cares. But Winnipeg is a different situation. And it's also why Houston football fans, of which there are plenty, care about the Oilers records and history.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So they would take those records away from Utah?
And would they take any records away from Winnipeg that were earned via Atlanta?

Utah doesn't have those records. As I understand it, Smith bought the hockey ops from the Coyotes, not the actual team. So the Mammoth legacy is new and their own. For instance, Iginla is there first draft pick in their records, it doesn't count any of Jet 1.0 or Coyotes stuff.

Those records are in limbo waiting for in theory for the Coyotes to come back.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Utah doesn't have those records. As I understand it, Smith bought the hockey ops from the Coyotes, not the actual team. So the Mammoth legacy is new and their own. For instance, Iginla is there first draft pick in their records, it doesn't count any of Jet 1.0 or Coyotes stuff.

Those records are in limbo waiting for in theory for the Coyotes to come back.

That's why it would be even sillier if a new Phoenix "expansion" franchise took the Jets history.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'm still confused by what happens to the Thrashers part of this. Basically do those records end with that team now?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm still confused by what happens to the Thrashers part of this. Basically do those records end with that team now?

Kovalchuk > Hawerchuk

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Thread title


Locke after three posts


What is so hard to grasp about this beyond being pedantic and annoying? If the Calgary Flames moved, came back after a dozen years then yes I would like to have all that history, scoring titles, retired numbers etc etc be apart of our city again. There is zero to question about it, somethings don't need a "for why!"

It's a slippery slope, next thing you know people will claim that the Canucks are the Millionaires and therefore have won a cup.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Kovalchuk > Hawerchuk

not even close

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

It's a slippery slope, next thing you know people will claim that the Canucks are the Millionaires and therefore have won a cup.

The Ottawa Senators have 4 cups under this model.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm still confused by what happens to the Thrashers part of this. Basically do those records end with that team now?

Yeah, that's the part I'm not clear on.
Maybe it hangs around and they only adopt the Jets stuff pre relocation to PHX?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah it matters to the fans. It's not just about "looking them up" either. It's about the history and where/how it is celebrated.

I have to chuckle at posters who call it a silly waste of time or suggest the NHL has better things to do. They really are doing this for the Winnipeg fans, so it strikes me that other team's fans are the ones wasting their time by arguing about it.

The history of the game is important IMO and they are right to do things to protect it.

Honestly the records and history of the club when in Atlanta really should belong to Atlanta. It's just that no one cares. But Winnipeg is a different situation. And it's also why Houston football fans, of which there are plenty, care about the Oilers records and history.

Why?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

not even close

Let a man #### post.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Ottawa Senators have 4 cups under this model.

Restore ALL of the records!! Apparently it is critical!!!

[PepsiFree]

I get the emotional appeal side of this, as there is a lot of attachment in Winnipeg to the Phoenix franchise’s time in Winnipeg, but I’m not sure I necessarily agree (or at least I don’t agree that it should be anything more than a one-off).

As a Flames fan, the Atlanta Flames are an intrinsic part of the Calgary Flames legacy. Records and player personnel aside, we have the same name, same jerseys, and have incorporated that Atlanta logo into our own branding (both as the alternate captain letter and in vintage jerseys).

Say Atlanta gets another team. Should they get to use anything related to the Atlanta Flames? I wouldn’t argue no, because it’s still an active part of this franchise’s history. Should they get to use anything related to the Thrashers? That’s more debatable since Winnipeg seems to have no interest in it and is more limited in how they incorporated it into their history.

If Phoenix gets another team, are they limited to incorporating only the previous franchise’s time in Phoenix/Arizona? So they can’t say they drafted Shane Doan, but they can still honour his jersey and consider him theirs otherwise?

I don’t know, seems kind of messy. I guess the NHL owns the rights to the franchise so they can do whatever they want with it, so as a one off I do get it, but I can see both sides of it for sure. I agree with BigThief that if the Flames left and came back I’d want that history attached, even if the team had carried on elsewhere.

Would that be fair if the Houston Flames were using all our stuff? I don’t know.

[GioforPM]

I know Winnipeg fans from the 80s who sure considered the Coyotes to still be their team. A lot took AZ trips to go to games. And that continued when the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. They just had two teams to support.

[Calgary4LIfe]

If I am Utah, I would prefer that my organization starts off with a completely fresh slate. I would prefer that they be treated like an expansion team. Especially considering that - historically - it has been one of the worst franchises in history. Yeah, I wouldn't want any part of that.


However, I would also understand how valuable that is for Winnipeg. Too bad you can't make trades for money or things like that any longer. Would be interesting to see what kind of a deal would end up happening. How much would it REALLY be worth to Winnipeg, right?

[White Out 403]

Utah is its own thing, they dont have any history to Arizona or Winnipeg officially

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Locke

Fair enough, I'm just wondering...."who cares?" Its not like theres tons and tons there to brag about?

It seems like pointless busywork.

I’d say for Selanne alone it’s worth it.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Utah doesn't have those records. As I understand it, Smith bought the hockey ops from the Coyotes, not the actual team. So the Mammoth legacy is new and their own. For instance, Iginla is there first draft pick in their records, it doesn't count any of Jet 1.0 or Coyotes stuff.

Those records are in limbo waiting for in theory for the Coyotes to come back.

They are not in limbo. The coyotes name ,team records and history still are owned by Alex Meruelo , who still owns the roadrunner. He kept the rights because he is still hoping to re establish the Coyotes or some form.

I don't think the Jets should get the history. Different franchise , different history. I also think ot is stupid Utah didn't get the rights to that Coyotes. If for example Winnipeg just lost the team with no relocation then fine they get the history but the are not the same Jets just because they share a name.

Fun fact after some research : when the Jets moved to Phoenix they acquired every right BUT the name Jets. So the water gets much muddier. The NHL actual got the rights to the name Jets. Phoenix got all the history and everything else associated with the Jets but the NHL had the name rights. So when the Coyotes used Jets inspired 3rd jerseys they had to license the name and logo from the league.

Fun fact 2: although the Jets new logo and name is procieved to be a nod to the Canadian air force ( maple leaf and a jet) the Winnipeg Jets are a carbon copy of the name of the new York Jets . In the 70s the 2 owners were close friends and the owner of the Winnipeg franchise was a big Joe name that fan ,he wanted to capitalize on the New York teams popularity and his friend said it was a good idea so .. hence Winnipeg Jets.


So I guess in summary just claiming other people #### is just in Winnipegs blood . Name, history and what ever else goes with that territory.