[PGT] Flames eat slow-cooked Mammoth

[Enoch Root]

More than a 1/3 of the way through the season, the Flames are tied for the worst record in the league, and one of only 5 teams that are under .500, and people have nothing better to post than 'mushy middle'.

Really happy to see Wolf playing well again. Andersson's stock is skyrocketing. Coleman is a beast. Zary is playing his best hockey of the season right now. The defense looks much better than I expected (including Bahl and Kuznetsov).

The horror!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CgyFlamesftw

History shows the Flames are on pace to get a top 5 pick, they would need to run a win pct similar to Dallas stars rest of way to get even out of top 10 pick. Its not happening, they dug themselves a big hole. Wolf would need to win vezina and that is after trading Andersson.

Its a weird year standing wise.

Based on winning %, the last wild team in the West is on pace for 88 points.

And the # 6 pick in the draft is on pace for 82 points.

There are 11 teams in the NHL within 2 games of .500, above or below. The NHL is mushy middle these days.

If the Flames hit the Dallas winning % the balance of the year, they would hit 107 points, currently a pace that would put them in 7th place in the NHL Dallas is a bad example to use..

A 93 point pace the rest of the year would leave them in the curent #9 draft place.

So, assuming Andersson is traded at least, a top 10 pick seems very likely.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More than a 1/3 of the way through the season, the Flames are tied for the worst record in the league, and one of only 5 teams that are under .500, and people have nothing better to post than 'mushy middle'.

Really happy to see Wolf playing well again. Andersson's stock is skyrocketing. Coleman is a beast. Zary is playing his best hockey of the season right now. The defense looks much better than I expected (including Bahl and Kuznetsov).

The horror!

Absolutely no one is knocking individual performances or taking that away from the players.

Not sure what you're conjuring from your imagination with that last point.

[CgyFlamesftw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More than a 1/3 of the way through the season, the Flames are tied for the worst record in the league, and one of only 5 teams that are under .500, and people have nothing better to post than 'mushy middle'.

Really happy to see Wolf playing well again. Andersson's stock is skyrocketing. Coleman is a beast. Zary is playing his best hockey of the season right now. The defense looks much better than I expected (including Bahl and Kuznetsov).

The horror!

Agreed, were still on pace for top 5 pick. Andersson upping his value which is also great.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Over the last 3 years, Calgary has gone from having the 20th oldest team, to the 22nd oldest team , to the 23rd oldest team, with the average age going from 27.87 to 27.50 to 27.36.

So, baby steps.

Turning over 78% of the team has not resulted in a much younger team yet.

I think the issues is their best players tend to be their best players.

Once Andersson, Coleman and Kadri are moved, those numbers will take a serious dive I expect. Assuming they are moved and replaced by rookies.

This is incorrect.

2022 - 2023
The average age of the Flames roster for the 2022-2023 season was 28.39, good for 9th oldest team. They were 0.85 away from 4th oldest, 0.88 from being 3rd oldest.

2025 - 2026
The average age of the Flames roster for this season is 27.27, good for 7th youngest. They are 0.39 away from being 4th youngest, 1.1 from being 3rd youngest.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More than a 1/3 of the way through the season, the Flames are tied for the worst record in the league, and one of only 5 teams that are under .500, and people have nothing better to post than 'mushy middle'.

Really happy to see Wolf playing well again. Andersson's stock is skyrocketing. Coleman is a beast. Zary is playing his best hockey of the season right now. The defense looks much better than I expected (including Bahl and Kuznetsov).

The horror!

Except the 2-9-2 start had as much to do with a scheduling fiasco than anything else.

The recent run of 9-6-2 might be more indicative of this team's abilities.

So yes this team really is headed for the mushy middle if they stay the course and not trade anyone.

[Pipty]

Waiting for a slightly better return for our guys might actually be worse off than just hopefully getting a later 1st round or one that was drafted in. Will be lapped by the Anaheim, SJ, Chicago's where they win cups or come close then are ahead of us in potentially winning one again. At this rate even Tampa will once again be in a rebuild before us

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Pipty

Waiting for a slightly better return for our guys might actually be worse off than just hopefully getting a later 1st round or one that was drafted in. Will be lapped by the Anaheim, SJ, Chicago's where they win cups or come close then are ahead of us in potentially winning one again. At this rate even Tampa will once again be in a rebuild before us

Not worried about Tampa but it does suck that the flames will likely be building up against the next phase of powerhouse teams in the west when coming out of their rebuild. If the flames end up entering their competitive window in say 4 years… Anaheim, Chicago and San Jose could be the gauntlet of teams in the western conference that any team has to beat. I think Colorado and Dallas will still be good teams by then as well. Vegas will probably be pretty middling by then. Edmonton will be in their new decade of darkness by then.

[Your Calgary Flames!]

Originally Posted by Pipty

Waiting for a slightly better return for our guys might actually be worse off than just hopefully getting a later 1st round or one that was drafted in. Will be lapped by the Anaheim, SJ, Chicago's where they win cups or come close then are ahead of us in potentially winning one again. At this rate even Tampa will once again be in a rebuild before us

A bit of a double edged sword. Wait to get a better return for the vets which can possibly help in the long run or if you sell them quicker you get a lesser return but have a better chance of drafting a higher pick due to the lack of wins.

[Pipty]

Quality over quantity at this point. Who cares to get an extra 4th rounder or even a late first vs second rounder. Players won't want to lose, up to management at this point to help ice a team that won't win.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Pipty

Quality over quantity at this point. Who cares to get an extra 4th rounder or even a late first vs second rounder. Players won't want to lose, up to management at this point to help ice a team that won't win.

If that’s what was holding up a deal it would be made already. What’s missing from any offer so far is an asset valuable enough to make it worthwhile to the Flames. Like you said, quality over quantity. Or perhaps both.

[mogg]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I missed the game because I was in ER for 2 1/2 hours before giving up after the game was done. I kept track of it on my phone though while in pain. Came home and saw the Jets were taking a big dump against the Oilers so I switched it immediately.

I went back today and had to wait 7 1/2 hours. I heard from her mom the woman sitting beside me didn't get in until 4:30 a.m so she was there for like 14 hours and didn't leave until just before I got in today.

Man I hope you’re all patched up and in a better place now. Last I was in ER it took about that long. The ‘estimated wait time’ clocks are useless. The numbers mean nothing. Just a brutal experience. It’s actually cruel.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

If that’s what was holding up a deal it would be made already. What’s missing from any offer so far is an asset valuable enough to make it worthwhile to the Flames. Like you said, quality over quantity. Or perhaps both.

No one is questioning that at all.

The concern is what type of asset that is. Is it a mid-20s current NHLer that they think will help us in the short term to maybe push for a first round exit this season / next season (DO NOT WANT), or is it a bluechip prospect that will play in the minors this season which helps us finish low enough to draft high, and then help us be a really good team in the future (WANT)?

We all know Conny isn't just going to give guys away for nothing, but I know I'm still worried about Maloney's interviews and whether he wants Craig to get help for this season vs letting Craig focus entirely on futures only.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Groot

Things like turning over 78% of the team in 2 years, stockpiling draft picks, not signing UFA's, going from one of the oldest to one of the youngest teams in the league, injecting prospects into the lineup, paying to the salary floor instead of cap.

If only the Flames did any of the above....

Stop injecting facts into a never ending debate.

[Knut]

I guess we could simply just Give Andersson, Coleman and Kadri away for free in order to satisfy 10% off the fan base that wants a high pick at all costs.

Lets say you move them all for 2nd round picks just to help the tank.

Would you rather have.

3 2nds and a
75% Chance of picking top 3 ?

or

3 first, 3 solid prospects + some young project players and
a Top 10 pick

or

2 firsts, 2 solid prospects + some young project players + a Mentor in Coleman and
a Top 10 Pick

Also, a lot of the teams that can buy these guys have cap implications and may need to wait until closer to the deadline to fit in their salary. You also can not MAKE some other GM make a move.

You could argue that they should have dealt them last year and I agree that Andersson should have been moved but you cant just move them for nothing right now. Factor in the returns on these guys. Kadri had a lot of trade protection until this season as well.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Psytic

This moronic fan base gets what it deserves. This is why we have less playoff success than even Buffalo. You get these cult like idiots happy that we hang onto all our aging assets on the way 82-86 points. Even a 10 year old can do the math and figure out we will come up short or be a first round out as usual. Do people not actually want a contender ? Are we not trying to win the cup?

One of these prime assets needs to go it’s just good business. Honestly Easton Cowan looks pretty good for the rebiggle I wouldn’t mind that. We are going to draft 6-10 most likely at this rate. There’s still some value there but we can’t be taking the safe two way type player. They need to absolutely hit these picks out of the park if we aren't finishing bottom 5.we can still make this work if we can draft in the top 10 but it’s much harder.

Who exactly are you talking about?

I don't know if I know of anyone who wants to hang on to vets to see the team improve to a non top 10 playoff spot. Is there a single person that thinks that?

These "cult like idiots" are really just saying waiting until the market establishes itself is prudent.

That's it. That is all.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Knut

I guess we could simply just Give Andersson, Coleman and Kadri away for free in order to satisfy 10% off the fan base that wants a high pick at all costs.

Lets say you move them all for 2nd round picks just to help the tank.

Would you rather have.

3 2nds and a
75% Chance of picking top 3 ?

or

3 first, 3 solid prospects + some young project players and
a Top 10 pick

or

2 firsts, 2 solid prospects + some young project players + a Mentor in Coleman and
a Top 10 Pick

Also, a lot of the teams that can buy these guys have cap implications and may need to wait until closer to the deadline to fit in their salary. You also can not MAKE some other GM make a move.

You could argue that they should have dealt them last year and I agree that Andersson should have been moved but you cant just move them for nothing right now. Factor in the returns on these guys. Kadri had a lot of trade protection until this season as well.

Doubt anyone is going to be moving until closer to the deadline unless some contenders have some big injuries.

Andersson moving will be his decision I would think.

I don’t think Kadri is going anywhere.

Coleman is the only other player I think might move.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by mogg

Man I hope you’re all patched up and in a better place now. Last I was in ER it took about that long. The ‘estimated wait time’ clocks are useless. The numbers mean nothing. Just a brutal experience. It’s actually cruel.

They didn't even have the screen working yesterday. The power went out Saturday night for a few seconds before the backup generator kicked in and they probably didn't even think to log back in.

They had a code blue yesterday right after I was told I would be called in soon so that delayed things even more.

I have a UTI which the doctor thinks was the cause of my stomach problems. It felt like really bad indigestion that nothing I took helped. I still feel gross today which is probably from not eating much but atleast the pain is gone.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Knut

I guess we could simply just Give Andersson, Coleman and Kadri away for free in order to satisfy 10% off the fan base that wants a high pick at all costs.

Lets say you move them all for 2nd round picks just to help the tank.

Would you rather have.

3 2nds and a I haven't seen anyone suggest moving any player for only a single 2nd round pick. Doing so would be sheer lunacy.
75% Chance of picking top 3 ?

or

3 first, 3 solid prospects + some young project players and
a Top 10 pick Strong chance our guys would be going to contenders, and would actually make those contenders even better... so those firsts would likely be in the 24-32 overall range. Our cupboards are full of solid prospects and project players. What we don't have is a bone fide bluechip guy.

or

2 firsts, 2 solid prospects + some young project players + a Mentor in Coleman and
a Top 10 Pick No. The top-three in this draft are all potential franchise-cornerstone players. Again, we're practically tripping over solid prospects and project players. Failing to acquire a real superstar when we have a golden opportunity to do so has a very serious opportunity cost attached to it that people seem to be not recognizing.

Also, a lot of the teams that can buy these guys have cap implications and may need to wait until closer to the deadline to fit in their salary. You also can not MAKE some other GM make a move. This is why God invented weaponizing cap space. These teams all have at least one contract they'd like to unload. There's value in taking those off their hands.

You could argue that they should have dealt them last year and I agree that Andersson should have been moved but you cant just move them for nothing right now. Factor in the returns on these guys. Kadri had a lot of trade protection until this season as well.

Answers in red.

To reiterate, I want to swing for the fences. There are some exciting bluechip targets out there we can be aiming at, and without worrying about getting a current NHLer back as part of the return (other than a bad contract), at kills two things at once. A future top-line player from the trade, and strengthens our chance at landing a cornerstone player in the draft.

Nobody wants to trade anyone for nothing... although, trading everyone for a bag of pucks and then finishing in last place, guaranteeing us one of McKenna, Verhoeff or Lawrence would still be a pretty good trade. (I'm not actually recommending doing that, since finishing in 32nd place is the only guarantee of a top-three pick, which is way too much of a risk.)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Why do you think the Flames aren't aiming for blue chip targets? Aiming for them and getting them are very different things.
I also think weaponizing cap space isn't what it used to be. Yes some teams are cap crunched but not like they were a few years ago. So what you can get in return is minimal.