[PGT] Predators defeat Flames 5-1, Dec. 2nd

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Nonononononono!! Everyone gets Participation Medals these days...don't want to make them feel disrespected or not good enough...c'mon!

Participation Medal type performance is a pretty accurate way of describing the season of several of the vets on this roster to be fair.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Who is the best rookie playing on the roster now?

I posit that the best one currently playing was one they were willing to waive and potentially lose at the beginning of the year, so that we could play Joel Hanley/Jake Bean.

IMO this invalidates the notion that the flames are giving reasonable chances to young players. Parekh is another great example; they were basically forced to keep him because of AHL rules, but they stapled his ass to the bench and played him with pylons while telling him not to play like himself.

The third one is Honzek, who I am still not sold on as an nhl regular.

They obviously waived Kuz at the correct time, with only one game and when other teams were focused on their own lineups. I guess none of the other 31 teams thought that much of him.

It doesn't invalidate anything, even if they misread what his impact would be. They've obviously corrected it and given him more than a "reasonable chance". They put Parekh on the first unit power play, put him out when a goasl behind and an empty net. They played him with Hanley, who is a solid and capable defender. And with Pachal who is a young guy who they are giving a chance to (but they played him more with Weegar and Bahl than Pachal, in total).

And with the same breath as you saying they don't give good enough chances, you half way write off Honzek, who was clearly up to NHL standards.

Did they give the following reasonable chances: Coronato, Zary, Pelletier, Klapka, Pospisil, Duehr, Ruzicka?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

Participation Medal type performance is a pretty accurate way of describing the season of several of the vets on this roster to be fair.

Who?

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Who is the best rookie playing on the roster now?

I posit that the best one currently playing was one they were willing to waive and potentially lose at the beginning of the year, so that we could play Joel Hanley/Jake Bean.

IMO this invalidates the notion that the flames are giving reasonable chances to young players. Parekh is another great example; they were basically forced to keep him because of AHL rules, but they stapled his ass to the bench and played him with pylons while telling him not to play like himself.

The third one is Honzek, who I am still not sold on as an nhl regular.

So wild to me how quick everyone is to ignore that Kuznetsov was on waivers to protect older, clearly worse veterans. Insanely lucky that he wasn't claimed, and no, they do not get credit for "sneaking him through" or anything, this was just pure mismanagement for absolutely no reason.

[traptor]

man this was a fun year.
I forgot how young they all were. What could of been...

# Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age

13 Johnny Gaudreau L 82 40 75 115 26 64 12 3 11 14 2 NJ: Salem 28

19 Matthew Tkachuk L 82 42 62 104 68 57 12 4 6 10 20 AZ: Scottsdale 23

28 Elias Lindholm C 82 42 40 82 22 61 12 5 4 9 6 Sweden: Boden 26

88 Andrew Mangiapane L 82 35 20 55 38 20 12 3 3 6 10 ONT: Toronto 25

4 Rasmus Andersson D 82 4 46 50 28 30 12 3 3 6 23 Sweden: Malmo 24

55 Noah Hanifin D 81 10 38 48 19 27 12 0 3 3 4 MA: Boston 24

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who?

They're dead last, pick a guy. Do you genuinely believe that every vet on this roster has justified their position on this team so far?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

So wild to me how quick everyone is to ignore that Kuznetsov was on waivers to protect older, clearly worse veterans. Insanely lucky that he wasn't claimed, and no, they do not get credit for "sneaking him through" or anything, this was just pure mismanagement for absolutely no reason.

Please point me to all your howls of protest when he was waived, or anyone else's. This was a player with one prior NHL game (in a mid December game which he was 11.58 TOI and was a -1). He had 21 points with the Wranglers last year (5th among the D). I doubt any pro scout had even watched him. In preseason he was capable, but Brzu was better, and so was Parekh.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

They're dead last, pick a guy. Do you genuinely believe that every vet on this roster has justified their position on this team so far?

You are the guy complaining - who are you talking about?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

They're dead last, pick a guy. Do you genuinely believe that every vet on this roster has justified their position on this team so far?

The only vet on this roster who hasn't justified his position on this team is Sharangovich, and they're stuck with him.

The team isn't dead last because of a lack of effort. It's because of a severe lack of talent. The only players on the Wranglers who have made a strong case for promotion are Gridin and Kerins, both of whom have played NHL games this season and are first on tap when and if Kadri and/or Coleman are traded. Neither one of them is the kind of world-beater who will turn the team's fortunes around, no matter which two veterans they replace.

Besides, do you honestly want them on the NHL roster this year to help the team not finish last?

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Please point me to all your howls of protest when he was waived, or anyone else's. This was a player with one prior NHL game (in a mid December game which he was 11.58 TOI and was a -1). He had 21 points with the Wranglers last year (5th among the D). I doubt any pro scout had even watched him. In preseason he was capable, but Brzu was better, and so was Parekh.

Yea man everyone was stoked on here that Miromanov was still around, no controversy there. It's ok to admit that this team dodged a major bullet not losing a young guy for free that's looking a lot like a long term asset in order to protect "established" veterans that are worse.

All that aside, do you genuinely think that no pro scout watched a 23 year old former second rounder who was playing top 4 minutes in the main feeder league to the NHL?

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The only vet on this roster who hasn't justified his position on this team is Sharangovich, and they're stuck with him.

The team isn't dead last because of a lack of effort. It's because of a severe lack of talent. The only players on the Wranglers who have made a strong case for promotion are Gridin and Kerins, both of whom have played NHL games this season and are first on tap when and if Kadri and/or Coleman are traded. Neither one of them is the kind of world-beater who will turn the team's fortunes around, no matter which two veterans they replace.

Besides, do you honestly want them on the NHL roster this year to help the team not finish last?

Justifying your spot on a team because you've tried hard feels pretty participation medal-ish to me but hey, agree to disagree I suppose.

Main frustration I and I suspect a lot of people have is that it feels as though there's a double standard for rope between young players and veterans, this is not a new take, this is not something that hasn't been raised by insiders on here as an issue in the room.

Clearly you guys disagree and are willing to defend this tooth and nail, you do you, I just don't agree.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

Justifying your spot on a team because you've tried hard feels pretty participation medal-ish to me but hey, agree to disagree I suppose.

So what are they supposed to do? Magically be better players? That isn't a thing. They're doing the best they can with the talent they have.

Main frustration I and I suspect a lot of people have is that it feels as though there's a double standard for rope between young players and veterans, this is not a new take, this is not something that hasn't been raised by insiders on here as an issue in the room.

Every single fan base in the league complains about the same thing every single year. Fans routinely over-value their own team's prospects and underestimate the difficulty of making it in the NHL. Guys who have proven they can play in the NHL naturally get a longer leash than those who haven't.

You still haven't named a single player that you think should be off the team in favour of a prospect. Time to put up.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Who is the best rookie playing on the roster now?

With Honzek and Parekh both injured, Kuznetsov is the only rookie playing on the roster right now.

[The EBUG's EBUG]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So what are they supposed to do? Magically be better players? That isn't a thing. They're doing the best they can with the talent they have.



Every single fan base in the league complains about the same thing every single year. Fans routinely over-value their own team's prospects and underestimate the difficulty of making it in the NHL. Guys who have proven they can play in the NHL naturally get a longer leash than those who haven't.

You still haven't named a single player that you think should be off the team in favour of a prospect. Time to put up.

"They're doing the best they can" is what you hear when you get the participation medal at the spring league U10 tournament.

Shouldn't be controversial to suggest that the last place team in the league has replacement level players that could be replaced by youth who may or may not also be replacement level players but we don't know yet. Would be nice to be able to find out what those players can do.

I'm impressed by your commitment to attacked dissent around here. Frankly I have no desire to engage with you on anything, it's clear we have nothing to gain from any exchange of ideas. Feel free to stop replying to my posts, I can assure you I will not be engaging with yours.

[PepsiFree]

It must be exhausting trying to look for reasons to criticize the Flames all the time.

I mean sure, they put Kuznetsov on waivers and could have lost him (like literally every player on waivers, many of which go on to become regular NHLers, too). But they didn’t. And then they brought him up and gave him every opportunity he earned.

Nobody claimed Kuz, so if the Flames deserve criticism for waiving him then every other team deserves more for not taking such an obviously great player at the team for free.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The EBUG's EBUG

Shouldn't be controversial to suggest that the last place team in the league has replacement level players that could be replaced by youth who may or may not also be replacement level players but we don't know yet. Would be nice to be able to find out what those players can do.

We are finding out. So far at a regularity the same or more than the vast majority of other teams in the NHL. Doesn’t seem like an issue.

[FBI]

I actually DO think Gridin has a chance to be a world beater.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It must be exhausting trying to look for reasons to criticize the Flames all the time.

I mean sure, they put Kuznetsov on waivers and could have lost him (like literally every player on waivers, many of which go on to become regular NHLers, too). But they didn’t. And then they brought him up and gave him every opportunity he earned.

Nobody claimed Kuz, so if the Flames deserve criticism for waiving him then every other team deserves more for not taking such an obviously great player at the team for free.

It's crazy - the complaint is that they aren't giving rookies a chance, except the ones they are, in which case it's that they didn't two months ago, when they were giving three other rookies a chance.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Please point me to all your howls of protest when he was waived, or anyone else's. This was a player with one prior NHL game (in a mid December game which he was 11.58 TOI and was a -1). He had 21 points with the Wranglers last year (5th among the D). I doubt any pro scout had even watched him. In preseason he was capable, but Brzu was better, and so was Parekh.

My recollection was that everyone was up in arms about losing 25 year old Solovyov who has now played 9 out of the 26 games the Avs have played.

[Strange Brew]

Here is what some posters said at the time he was placed on waivers:

"Crossing fingers Morton and Kuz are not claimed. They have the potential to be back up very soon."

"I could see Morton and Kuznetsov getting claimed, similar to Schwindt and Valimaki. They will be serviceable bubble NHL guys"

"50/50 chance Kuznetsov clears."

"But it is a gut-punch to risk losing Kuz for Bean, Morton for Kirkland."

"I am a little worried about Kuz and Morton, I thought they were ahead of Solo/Miro and Kirkland."

"I'm not comfortable exposing Kuznetsov to the waiver wire. He's the kind of bargain bin pick up the Oilers need. He's right there in terms of being a full time NHL player. In my estimation his training camp overall was pretty great."

"Solo and Kuznetsov looked like they worked well together last night. It'd be interesting to see them together as a bottom pairing in the NHL"