[News] Conroy, Maloney, Nonis and Pascall all extended 2 years

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think guys like Frost really have lower ceilings than, say, a 27-35 OA pick.

Frost is what he is at this point. A fine 3rd line center, although inconsistent.

I don't think he will ever be anything more.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I'm sorry but this sentence is ridiculous lol. Trade Kadri, Andersson, and Coleman tomorrow and then you can say something like that.

We have done nothing over the past year and a half to try and change anything. To this point outside the Markstrom trade we have done the bare minimum to tank.

Why stop at only Markstrom, they have traded others( yes they offered contracts, but contracts they knew the players would not accept) so why can’t they be included in the attempt to tank.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Do you think Frost has a similar ceiling to Marvei Gridin?

The Flames have never targeted a player instead of a first round pick though. I know it was Gio’s example but I don’t think Frost is a good one, that was a hockey trade where Conroy saw he could give up very little for two young distressed assets.

A better example would be Newhook. He was traded for a 31st overall pick (gulyayev) and a 37th overall pick (Gauthier). I would say that at the time of the trade the 22 year old Newhook had the same ceiling as the picks he was traded for.

Hughes made the same call with Dach for the 7th overall (Nazar) and a 3rd.

It is actually the Habs that have sold off picks for prospects more than the Flames. But they have two “rebuilding/tanking” trades where they traded younger assets for slightly older assets.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Its not complicated. The organization said they arent rebuilding and then went the last 16 months with a only one trade. That trade wasn't rebuild related. A fan interpreting that as the Flames are not rebuilding doesn't need to defend the take. They say they are not rebuilding and have done nothing to rebuild in nearly 2 years. They aren't rebuilding is the default take.

The other side of the argument is flimsy and generaly revolve around veteran turnover in Conroy's first year, the Flames not leveraging cap space, and the Flames not moving assets to improve.

• Veterans moved first year: They were nearly all pending UFAs, some of which they attempted to keep. Plus a disgruntled goalie that they had to trade due to having too many goalies. It was also limited to Conroy's first year.
• Cap space not leveraged/Not trying to win now: First, they tried via Conroy's "big swings". Second, they have been inactive, hence they aren't building, rebuilding or otherwise.

This is so boring, though. And it falls right in with what I was saying, as making up reasons why their actions that look like a rebuild aren’t actually a rebuild is just as silly as the other things.

You’re right that it’s not complicated. So why do you and a couple others bend over backwards to complicate it?

If a someone walks up to you and says “I’m not going to punch you” and then punches you in the face, I doubt very much you’d argue that “He’s won’t actually punch anyone!” is the default take and doesn’t need to be defended. We’re talking low level critical thinking here which literally everyone here is totally capable of and practices ALL of the time, so the only reason why you’d just not do that is because you’re trying to hold on to some narrative. But… why?

EDIT: just saw some of your follow up posts. Man, if you’re talking about the 80s, trying to use “the hockey community” as some monolith that agrees with you, and trying to discredit trades because some of them were on expiring contracts… stop lol.

It’s OK to change your mind when presented with new information. You don’t get a prize for holding the same position since 1995.

[Geeoff]

I think one issue with trading for young players right now is we don't know what gaps we have to fill. Perhaps, order of operations is to get the core in place and then supplement them with similar age players

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Yes we know, you think they should trade those 3 right now for whatever crappy return is currently on the table. Thankfully Conroy has a plan and will trade them when he gets the best return. Feel confident that Conroy’s approach will be the correct one.

You don't know any of this though. You don't know that the returns now would be any worse than the returns will be later. You think Conroy has a plan, but you don't actually know if his plan is any good, you just have hope, and it's very likely a false hope.

The Flames have pretty much never traded any players for maximum returns. They trade player when they have to, and typically in ways that prioritize minimum damage to team quality. That's how they manage to stick around the middle of the league season after season despite relative lack of top end talent.

They also clearly prioritize not upsetting the team or the players being traded, and Conny being Conny, I would expect this is an even bigger priority for him than most GM's, because he's a nice guy.

You also don't know if they're just delusional on what they think they can get, as this management group has very little track record...

Well beyond clearly being delusional on their expectations for this season.

Edit: (that said you could obviously turn out to be right, no one knows anything, nothing matters, we're all gonna die.)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Friedman reported yesterday that after the Canucks made all their vets available, there is huge interest around the league for Sherwood and Garland. And a trade may get done soon as there are many teams inquiring.

We just haven't made anyone available to really know what the interest is. It is a condensed standings and teams wants to give themselves a better chance.

Vancouver's strategy in recent years isn't one I'd try to emulate. They destroy locker rooms before breakfast.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Vancouver's strategy in recent years isn't one I'd try to emulate. They destroy locker rooms before breakfast.

Oh I wouldn't emulate Vancouver strategy at all, I was just saying it sounds like teams do want to make trades right now. The Flames just need to put players on the market.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Itse

You don't know any of this though. You don't know that the returns now would be any worse than the returns will be later.

We don't know what the offers are. We do know that a reputable insider like Friedman is saying they aren't good right now.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/n...onest-comments

"There are not a lot of great offers flowing right now," Friedman said on Monday. [26:23 onwards] "Like, I can tell you right now, even if the Flames wanted to trade Nazem Kadri, as of Saturday, there was no offer there that was making them say, 'Maybe we should trade Nazem Kadri.'

"You might want to throw that into that list," Friedman said. "There was no trade offer, like, even if the Flames wanted to tear it down to the studs, there wasn't anything on their desk last week that was going to say, 'Oh boy, we reject this deal. We might really regret it in five years.'

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Inferno

We don't know what the offers are. We do know that a reputable insider like Friedman is saying they aren't good right now.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/n...onest-comments

We don't know what the current offers are. But I can guarantee if you tell teams you are not interested in trading Kadri, you aren't going to ever know what the offers are until you put him up for sale.

Seravalli said as much, the offers for Kadri if he is made available will be so good they will be almost impossible to pass up.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

We don't know what the current offers are. But I can guarantee if you tell teams you are not interested in trading Kadri, you aren't going to ever know what the offers are until you put him up for sale.

Seravalli said as much, the offers for Kadri if he is made available will be so good they will be almost impossible to pass up.

It's already been reported that the Flames have told teams if they want them to consider trading Kadri to them they need to make a serious offer.

Teams don't need to wait for the Flames to tell them he or any Flame is available to make an offer.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It's already been reported that the Flames have told teams if they want them to consider trading Kadri to them they need to make a serious offer.

Teams don't need to wait for the Flames to tell them he or any Flame is available to make an offer.

Totally this. Every player and every asset is available, even Gretzky was traded. People really think that Conroy or Edwards made Kadri untouchable... give me a break. GMs don't wait for Elliot Friedman's word before engaging. They know the standings and what teams will be leaning towards selling. Having it leak that certain players are on the block doesn't help your cause, it's just background noise that if anything, could just put unnecessary pressure on the players named, which impacts performance. Teams try to avoid leaking this information publicly when possible because it's not helpful. All you can do is wait to see what happens. If a team's management group is running a tight ship, then all Elliot Friedman and other insiders put out is what you want them to.

[FanIn80]

I just ran the Tankathon draft simulator 5 times. Here's where we landed:

1. 4th overall
2. 4th overall
3. 3rd overall
4. 2nd overall
5. 4th overall

[Itse]

I would guess Kadri gets the best offers during offseason, because he has all those seasons left in the contract. That's a big piece to fit in for a buyer.

I would imagine there's a lot more current interest in Coleman. He's basically the perfect addition for a playoff run for almost any team.