Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Wolven

America only cares about Canada's military spending if we are giving all of that money to America.

Now that we have moved our submarine spending away from the US, that is a big number of billions of dollars we are no longer handing over.

If we dump the F-35 for the Gripen then that would be another stack of billions that we are no longer gifting to America. Moving to the Gripen would be a huge win for Canada as Saab have actually committed to set up manufacturing in Canada for the jets, which would create Canadian jobs and enable Canada to have more control over the assets.

That last part is a big deal as there are many rumours around the US having kill switches in the F-35. 3 million lines of code inside blackboxes in the jets that we are not allowed to audit or adjust.

Once Canada stops handing over piles of money to the US, will they care anymore what we spend on the military? I bet not.

Germany
Sweden
South Korea
Maybe the Pommies


Those are the countries that would should be purchasing killing equipment from.

[peter12]

but we should also be buying the F-35.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by peter12

but we should also be buying the F-35.

From the country that threatened to annex you? It still doesn't sit right with me.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Germany
Sweden
South Korea
Maybe the Pommies


Those are the countries that would should be purchasing killing equipment from.

Ya, what I like about both strategies is that they have a significant push for domestication. Both the Korea and German submarine offers comes with building facilities in Canada (Vancouver and Maritimes) to build an service the subs.

Saab is also talking about building their jets in Canada and giving us the ability to maintain them properly ourselves. Definitely a plan that suggests partnership and respect.

America has no interest in this strategy. They want us to hand over piles of money to get their equipment and then hand over more piles of money to maintain and support. At no point have their plans indicated shifting any of the work, jobs, or money back into Canada.

Also, taking this business away from the US hurts red states more than any other.

[peter12]

We should be buying the German sub. Far more practical and dependable design. South Korean sub is very cool but has some capabilities we don't need and a lot of unproven tech.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by peter12

but we should also be buying the F-35.

We should accept the 16 F-35s that we are already committed to.

The rest of the order should transition to the Gripen. There is really no reason to keep buying F-35s.

The Gripens are more cost effective. They are willing to partner with Canada and build local manufacturing jobs. They are designed for colder climates than the F-35 can handle. They do not have secret kill switches that another country can control.

Why would we want a F-35?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Ya, what I like about both strategies is that they have a significant push for domestication. Both the Korea and German submarine offers comes with building facilities in Canada (Vancouver and Maritimes) to build an service the subs.

Saab is also talking about building their jets in Canada and giving us the ability to maintain them properly ourselves. Definitely a plan that suggests partnership and respect.

America has no interest in this strategy. They want us to hand over piles of money to get their equipment and then hand over more piles of money to maintain and support. At no point have their plans indicated shifting any of the work, jobs, or money back into Canada.

Also, taking this business away from the US hurts red states more than any other.

Canada manufactures a ton of parts for the F-35.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Wolven

We should accept the 16 F-35s that we are already committed to.

The rest of the order should transition to the Gripen. There is really no reason to keep buying F-35s.

The Gripens are more cost effective. They are willing to partner with Canada and build local manufacturing jobs. They are designed for colder climates than the F-35 can handle. They do not have secret kill switches that another country can control.

Why would we want a F-35?

Also the ignition switch is on the floor by the handbrake

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by peter12

Canada manufactures a ton of parts for the F-35.

America's tariffs eliminate the benefit of that. Each part we send across the border now has a tariff tagged onto it and then we get to buy those parts back at a hugely inflated price.

In every way we are better off to eliminate the US from the process.

[Fuzz]

And it sounds like Canada would get a chunk of manufacturing for the Gripen. The US isn't our only option.

[peter12]

The US is, and will always be, our best option. Diversifying trade is good, but I don't think many Canadians know what that will actually entail, so instead, it just feels good to say.

[Fuzz]

Best not to do anything.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Best not to do anything.

That's pretty much been our strategy for the past 40 years. Not working....

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Best not to do anything.

He’s right though. Partisanship rules the day these days.

For example, we need a pipeline to the BC coast. Smiths trying to get that done, but you hate her guts so presumably you’re against it. Correct me if I’m wrong. Can’t see you supporting her on that, but it’s absolutely needed if we’re serious about deleveraging from the USA.

The idea hadn’t been floated for 5 mins and didn’t even have details (because the point was to announce the work is going to be done to get the details), and you have the BC premier instantly saying no deal (to what deal? Why say no? Bizarre approach).

This isn’t a country, and we aren’t serious about working together as one.

[peter12]

Remember when everybody was absolutely adamant that there would be no more internal trade barriers? It seems so long ago...

The Canadian federation is broken and BC and QC have led the charge to finish it off.

[Wormius]

I think there is some really interesting hypocrisy going on with this game Alberta is trying to play. The federal government has to force BC to allow a pipeline through to the coast, meanwhile the federal government should f-off and give Alberta complete autonomy over its resources.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

He’s right though. Partisanship rules the day these days.

For example, we need a pipeline to the BC coast. Smiths trying to get that done, but you hate her guts so presumably you’re against it. Correct me if I’m wrong. Can’t see you supporting her on that, but it’s absolutely needed if we’re serious about deleveraging from the USA.

The idea hadn’t been floated for 5 mins and didn’t even have details (because the point was to announce the work is going to be done to get the details), and you have the BC premier instantly saying no deal (to what deal? Why say no? Bizarre approach).

This isn’t a country, and we aren’t serious about working together as one.

If we require to exploit oil and gas to survive as a country, we are not going to last long for some very real reasons.

It'd be great if we could have another pipeline and I'd support one that makes sense, as I did TMX and gas exports. Competing interests make this extremely challenging, and I'm not 100% on board with throwing out other interests for that. Depends entirely on what it is, which I suspect is similar to Eby's position(though I don't know much about it).

And no, I absolutely don't support Smith because she is completely untrustworthy and can't manage a Tylenol order, I want her nowhere near any purse strings related to a project that large. You should perhaps give that some second thought as well. Unless you like the tax dollar toilet she's doing her best to plug up on the backs of our hard work.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think there is some really interesting hypocrisy going on with this game Alberta is trying to play. The federal government has to force BC to allow a pipeline through to the coast, meanwhile the federal government should f-off and give Alberta complete autonomy over its resources.

What are you talking about?

Canada was formed as an economic union and the federal government is designed to help solve cross-jurisdictional issues like pipelines. It just didn't do its job very well.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If we require to exploit oil and gas to survive as a country, we are not going to last long for some very real reasons.

It'd be great if we could have another pipeline and I'd support one that makes sense, as I did TMX and gas exports. Competing interests make this extremely challenging, and I'm not 100% on board with throwing out other interests for that. Depends entirely on what it is, which I suspect is similar to Eby's position(though I don't know much about it).

And no, I absolutely don't support Smith because she is completely untrustworthy and can't manage a Tylenol order, I want her nowhere near any purse strings related to a project that large. You should perhaps give that some second thought as well. Unless you like the tax dollar toilet she's doing her best to plug up on the backs of our hard work.

Well, we don't currently have a ton of other options, Fuzz.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by peter12

The US is, and will always be, our best option. Diversifying trade is good, but I don't think many Canadians know what that will actually entail, so instead, it just feels good to say.

Your declaration and insight is as deep as a kiddie pool.

The US is not our best option. They are not even a reasonable option. While their current administration is hostile toward our country, our best option for equipping our military is to partner with any country that is not actively talking about attacking our sovereignty.

We may be very critical of Carney's budget today but he has done some heavy lifting to actually diversify our trade away from the US. You and many other Canadians may not understand it, or even be aware of it, but it is happening anyway and we should embrace the effort full force.

Stopping your mindset of "America First" is how Canada transitions into the new world order as America burns all of its alliances and partnerships to the ground.