[PGT] Flames 1 @ Golden Knights 6

[Goriders]

Need .62 winning percentage from here on to get in.

Just need to get a win. Maybe score more than 2 goals. Allow less than 4.

[FireGilbert]

Wow the Vegas talent came to play. Just horrible defensive coverage from the Flames though. Bahl with an uncharacteristic bad game.

Huberdeau was good at least and generated some excitement. Could have had a 3 or 4 point game if playing with an actual 1st line scorer and not a 3rd liner like Farabee.

I fast forwarded through the 2nd half of the game. Did Sharangovich do something specific to annoy Bieksa or was it just his general weak and lazy play while generating zero offense? Easily the worst contract on the team.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Wow the Vegas talent came to play. Just horrible defensive coverage from the Flames though. Bahl with an uncharacteristic bad game.

Huberdeau was good at least and generated some excitement. Could have had a 3 or 4 point game if playing with an actual 1st line scorer and not a 3rd liner like Farabee.

I fast forwarded through the 2nd half of the game. Did Sharangovich do something specific to annoy Bieksa or was it just his general weak and lazy play while generating zero offense? Easily the worst contract on the team.

He showed a play where sharangovich could have checked a guy but chose to lightly brush him. I saw that play during the game and thought similar things

Sharangovich is the softest player in the NHL

[jg13]

Originally Posted by rick m.

is there a clip of bieksa’s comments?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1979790722669973637

[Mathgod]

I thought Sharky was playing through an injury last season. I guess his struggles didn't have anything to do with that after all...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

A bit of vindication early on for team tank/rebuild too.

Team retool claimed we actually could just retool on the fly and that we are much better than what our eyes are actually seeing. But a 1-5 start squashes that theory real fast. We have nothing to retool around.

Wolf camouflaged how God awful this roster really was last year. They can't score to save their life. With league average goaltending last year, this was a bottom 3 team. And they will be again this year unless Wolf carries us again.

I am not sure how many times I have to say it but here we go again

Wolf was flat out amazing against the bottom 3 teams in the West and the bottom 3 teams in the east. That is where he padded his stats. Against losers

Against the rest of the league (noting that Vladar didn’t get those muffins), he and Vladar were roughly equivalent


Ok.


Now with that said, Wolf isn’t ‘struggling’ this year like Elliotte was saying. Brian Burke once said, correctly, there are three kinds of shots: those you should stop, those you could stop, and those you can’t stop.

The Flames are actually that bad this year.

On the HNIC panel

Elliotte says a couple of things. Firstly, ‘when your goalie is struggling’… shut up. It’s team D
Secondly, ‘Vegas’s skill is on display’ . Well… we will return to this is a moment

Bieksa correctly looks at the PP goal and notes that it is a result of Eichel’s deceptiveness, exploiting a system where guys don’t know their jobs. Yup. Bahl should have goal line, and weak side W should have the slot

So Elliotte stumbled in to a correct statement but missed the point, which Bieksa captured. Eichel’s skill shouldn’t exploit a team that is connected, knows their jobs, and executes

And shame on Hrudey. Guy was a goalie. On one hand, he says you can’t just save harder and have the puck hit you. He says it in the context that it’s frustrating that you can’t go out and hit a guy. Then he kind of goes along with the Garrett ‘well, it’s 5 goals on 19 shots’

I don’t give a crap. Like Burke said, there are 3 kinds of shots. I hate when commentators on one hand say a goalie didn’t have a chance on them, but then turn on the goalie based on his stats

I get that a goalie is by nature competitive, think they should stop anything, and will internalize some blame… but come on. These slot shots they are giving up just shouldn’t be gifted to the opposition


By the way, Dan Vladar won today and right now is 2-1-0, 1.65, .934


Back to the PK. I understand they retooled it. Well I guess in training camp you mainly defend against your own team. Bieksa is right. Whatever they did, the guys clearly don’t get it, or if they are doing it right, it’s a horrible strategy. Can’t leave a guy in the slot wide open while you individually get mesmerized and confused by the puck carrier.

It has to improve but you can’t blame the goalie because it is not NHL level play


If this is what they are planning, then fine, whatever… hopefully they don’t get screwed by the McKenna lottery

[schteve_d]

I wonder what Gaskal is going to do with all his free time this year.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

A bit of vindication early on for team tank/rebuild too.

Team retool claimed we actually could just retool on the fly and that we are much better than what our eyes are actually seeing. But a 1-5 start squashes that theory real fast. We have nothing to retool around.

Wolf camouflaged how God awful this roster really was last year. They can't score to save their life. With league average goaltending last year, this was a bottom 3 team. And they will be again this year unless Wolf carries us again.

So are you going to be throwing a draft lottery party?…

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

It’s not super odd, people have been overvaluing Zary here for a long time. He’s likely a 3rd liner that could step up to second line if injuries make it a requirement. He isn’t a top 6.

Zary is this generations Jeff Shantz.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

A bit of vindication early on for team tank/rebuild too.

Team retool claimed we actually could just retool on the fly and that we are much better than what our eyes are actually seeing. But a 1-5 start squashes that theory real fast. We have nothing to retool around.

Wolf camouflaged how God awful this roster really was last year. They can't score to save their life. With league average goaltending last year, this was a bottom 3 team. And they will be again this year unless Wolf carries us again.

This team has been rebuilding for 24 months though. Biggest burn it to the ground rebuild in NHL salary cap history. I don’t think there ever was a team retool though because the Flames have not been retooling since Treliving left. So in that sense it has always been the same team.

Team tank/rebuild I think does not know what a rebuild looks like in the NHL (like the real game not EA Sports version). That is where the confusion kicks in for some I think.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This team has been rebuilding for 24 months though. Biggest burn it to the ground rebuild in NHL salary cap history. I don’t think there ever was a team retool though because the Flames have not been retooling since Treliving left. So in that sense it has always been the same team.

Team tank/rebuild I think does not know what a rebuild looks like in the NHL (like the real game not EA Sports version). That is where the confusion kicks in for some I think.

You keep saying this but I don't know what metrics you are using. We re signed old man Backlund, have not asked Kadri to waive his NTC (even though we probably should have), have not traded Andersson and have not traded Coleman. In my ideal rebuild scenario at least 2 of those players would be gone.

We also had no choice but to trade Lindholm and Hanifin when we offered them contracts and they refused to re sign. Tanev wanted to go to a contender.

We also traded a 2nd round pick to try to stay competitive in exchange for Farabee and Frost. That trade hasn't worked out at all either.

So it isn't like we decided to do some huge rebuild. We kind of stumbled into the position we are in. Add in the Sharo signing and I'm not sure anyone should have a lot of confidence in this management group.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Team Tank is eating so far this year

[Barnet Flame]

If it weren't for Skinner, we'd be off to a solid 0-6 start.

The scale of last year's overachievement is looking more astonishing by the game.

That said, it was good to see Huby back, without him, there is almost nothing happening in the attack zone.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

You keep saying this but I don't know what metrics you are using. We re signed old man Backlund, have not asked Kadri to waive his NTC (even though we probably should have), have not traded Andersson and have not traded Coleman. In my ideal rebuild scenario at least 2 of those players would be gone.

We also had no choice but to trade Lindholm and Hanifin when we offered them contracts and they refused to re sign. Tanev wanted to go to a contender.

We also traded a 2nd round pick to try to stay competitive in exchange for Farabee and Frost. That trade hasn't worked out at all either.

So it isn't like we decided to do some huge rebuild. We kind of stumbled into the position we are in. Add in the Sharo signing and I'm not sure anyone should have a lot of confidence in this management group.

The metrics I am using is that we traded more veterans for picks and prospects in a shorter period of time than any team in NHL Salary cap history. Nobody in NHL history has done a bigger and more substantive rebuild than the Flames.

What metrics are you using to say they have not been in the biggest rebuild in NHL salary cap history? Saying they should trade more vets does not in any way, shape or form constitute a coherent argument that they have not done the biggest burn it to the ground rebuild in NHL salary cap history. Which team has traded more vets in a shorter period of time?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The metrics I am using is that we traded more veterans for picks and prospects in a shorter period of time than any team in NHL Salary cap history. Nobody in NHL history has done a bigger and more substantive rebuild than the Flames.

What metrics are you using to say they have not been in the biggest rebuild in NHL salary cap history? Saying they should trade more vets does not in any way, shape or form constitute a coherent argument that they have not done the biggest burn it to the ground rebuild in NHL salary cap history. Which team has traded more vets in a shorter period of time?

We also had more core UFAs in thay two year period than any team ! And they got players back as part of those deals who could step on as placeholders or potential new core and resigned to long term deals - Shags and Bahl - vs pure futures

They also traded futures for Frost and Farabee

It’s certainly a rebuild light up to this point - and they haven’t made any real hard choices yet - traded the UFAs who wouldn’t resign at terms you liked

Let’s not pretend they strategically did “the biggest tear down in history” or that trading your UFAs that will not sign is some huge outlier for any non playoff team - even those not rebuilding

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We also had more core UFAs in thay two year period than any team ! And they got players back as part of those deals who could step on as placeholders or potential new core and resigned to long term deals - Shags and Bahl - vs pure futures

They also traded futures for Frost and Farabee

It’s certainly a rebuild light up to this point - and they haven’t made any real hard choices yet - traded the UFAs who wouldn’t resign at terms you liked

Let’s not pretend they strategically did “the biggest tear down in history” or that trading your UFAs that will not sign is some huge outlier for any non playoff team - even those not rebuilding

You're right. If we are rebuilding, it certainly wasn't by choice.

[SuperMatt18]

Nobody ever rebuilds by choice and a rebuild doesn't mean you only trade for futures.

Flames have made 10 picks in the first 3 rounds the past 2 seasons (+4 picks)

Sure they also got Bahl, Sharangovich, Frost and Fsrabee but any rebuild will have that.

Same Jose has Toffoli, Lilijegren, Goodrow, Dellanderea, Mukhamadullin, Askarov as guys they signed or traded for.

Does not trading for just picks mean they aren't rebuilding?

Really the flames have been rebuilding for two seasons, the only part of the rebuild that hasn't happened is they didn't suck bad enough last season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We also had more core UFAs in thay two year period than any team ! And they got players back as part of those deals who could step on as placeholders or potential new core and resigned to long term deals - Shags and Bahl - vs pure futures

They also traded futures for Frost and Farabee

It’s certainly a rebuild light up to this point - and they haven’t made any real hard choices yet - traded the UFAs who wouldn’t resign at terms you liked

Let’s not pretend they strategically did “the biggest tear down in history” or that trading your UFAs that will not sign is some huge outlier for any non playoff team - even those not rebuilding

LOL, no.

They traded futures for Frost and Farabee? They traded an older guy and a bottom line player with a 2nd and 7th and got overall younger. Frost is easily worth a second.

Bahl is part of the rebuild. And they obviously thought Sharangovich would be too. Conroy has acquired picks overall in his tenure. And if he'd signed Hanifin, it wouldn;t have changed a thing.

Did they make token courtesy lowball offers to some vets? Sure, and if they were accepted those guys would be easy trade assets now.

[Jason14h]

I actually think we are rebuilding by choice - they chose their price for their UFAs and decide the rebuild their core vs signing those players

I think Conroy has made some strategic choices that looking back he might have done differently - and hopefully moving forward takes those into consideration

I also think the teams play last year “screwed” up the plan where he expected to have a top 10 pick to add to the prospect cupboard

I would like to see Conroy lean into the rebuild more this season then the last 2 and realize you can’t stop gap it - and your most valuable asset is your own pick and a top 3 pick is exponentially more important then even top 5-7-9 and much much more valuable then late 1st which are dart throws/ unlikely to even play 250 games in the NHL

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Nobody ever rebuilds by choice and a rebuild doesn't mean you only trade for futures.

Flames have made 10 picks in the first 3 rounds the past 2 seasons (+4 picks)

Sure they also got Bahl, Sharangovich, Frost and Fsrabee but any rebuild will have that.

Same Jose has Toffoli, Lilijegren, Goodrow, Dellanderea, Mukhamadullin, Askarov as guys they signed or traded for.

Does not trading for just picks mean they aren't rebuilding?

Really the flames have been rebuilding for two seasons, the only part of the rebuild that hasn't happened is they didn't suck bad enough last season.

Which was on Wolf, and also guys like Hanley playing very well. That dam was always gonna burst.