[Signing] Wild sign Kaprizov to record setting contract extension (8 yrs, $17 mil AAV)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"It's just a matter of some Flames fans not necessarily plugged into the rest of the NHL as others. People that pay attention to the rest of the NHL know he's one of the best players in the game and worth every penny"

This is the quote that started the debate...not the lite version you are talking about.

Oh yeah, I would disagree with the "worth every penny" part for sure. Not the "one of the best players in the game", though. I agree with that.

[dino7c]

Well lets see some scoring titles and MVPs

McDavid, Drai, Kucherov, Matthews, MacKinnon all have them
Makar has a Norris

I mean list the best players...they have all won an Art Ross or Hart, most of them both

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

We did give him his money.
All of it.
Everything he wanted.
And then he changed his mind.

I also think Macinnis was going either way. There was some bad blood between him and the Flames at the time, and he chose to sign with the Blues, which then led to the Housley deal.

After a year long negotiation and not extending him. Could've backed the brinks truck up and paid him $11m/yr. So while I respect the facts as you present them, there is nuance, and a pattern with the organization.

Would I be happier watching a $11m/yr Gaudreau and Tkachuk right now...yes.

As for MacInnis...there was bad blood...I wonder why, as the guy got an instant 20% raise somewhere else from his contract offer. Similar happened to Nieuy the year after. There is a distinct pattern.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

After a year long negotiation and not extending him. Could've backed the brinks truck up and paid him $11m/yr. So while I respect the facts as you present them, there is nuance, and a pattern with the organization.

Would I be happier watching a $11m/yr Gaudreau and Tkachuk right now...yes.

As for MacInnis...there was bad blood...I wonder why, as the guy got an instant 20% raise somewhere else from his contract offer. Similar happened to Nieuy the year after. There is a distinct pattern.

So negotiations that happened literally decades apart, under different GMs and even owners represents a "pattern"? Interesting.

At the time there was no salary cap and the dollar was under water. The Flames couldn't afford to keep their stars.

The year before Johnny was under a PPG. Are you saying they should have extended him to 11M per after that kind of year?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Hatred and salary aside; who would you take on your team; Kaprizov or Drai?

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Hatred and salary aside; who would you take on your team; Kaprizov or Drai?

Kaprizov. Does similar with much much less. And he’s not a dirty POS. Anywhere but Edmonton and Drai is getting suspended multiple times

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So negotiations that happened literally decades apart, under different GMs and even owners represents a "pattern"? Interesting.

At the time there was no salary cap and the dollar was under water. The Flames couldn't afford to keep their stars.

The year before Johnny was under a PPG. Are you saying they should have extended him to 11M per after that kind of year?

I hear you, but Murray Edwards has been an owner since 1994. Also in his interview last season, he mentioned the "challenges" of our market. The ownership of this team has treated the team as a tax like business for a generation in my opinion. Just trying to break even. If you look back at what they couldn't afford, some questions that still exist today should be asked. Not to mention the ignorance of the franchise value appreciation.

On Gaudreau, while you bring up his points for a season, I look at jersey sales as more important. My core argument is that I would over pay every home grown star forever in the past and moving forward while they're under 34yrs old. So my answer then was yes and is still now. Personally my dream team of the future is top heavy with stars and youth filling in the gaps on cheap deals. That's not the only way to do it, but it is my preferred method.

Bringing this back to Kaprizov...paying him another $3m/yr would've still been worth it. Yeah you lose the internet arguments on comparables. Pragmatically though it just means that guys like Foligno are going to be replaced by someone on an ELC. From an entertainment point of view, that's a win.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Well we have common ground with Kaprizov. I have no problem with the Wild paying him what they did, as I see very little other choice for them.
Not sure I agree with signing players on the basis of things like jersey sales. I get you need stars, but up until that season, Johnny wasn't showing he was worth 11M. When he was the team was prepared to pay him.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well we have common ground with Kaprizov. I have no problem with the Wild paying him what they did, as I see very little other choice for them.
Not sure I agree with signing players on the basis of things like jersey sales. I get you need stars, but up until that season, Johnny wasn't showing he was worth 11M. When he was the team was prepared to pay him.

Definitely a lot of common ground.

The biggest shift the team in fanbase will have to stomach, is we need to pay for projected performance, and not established entities. I'm comfortable with that. The short deal preference that the club is preaching for older players at the moment is perfect from my view.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well lets see some scoring titles and MVPs

McDavid, Drai, Kucherov, Matthews, MacKinnon all have them
Makar has a Norris

I mean list the best players...they have all won an Art Ross or Hart, most of them both

Dude, you can not like the contract and argue until you're blue in the face about it but trying to discredit his offensive acumen is just silly. Who does Kaprisov play with? Two of the five players you listed are literally linemates. When Kucherov won the scoring titles Steven Stamkos was top ten in scoring too. When he won it the second time he had two 40 goal scorers on his team, one of 80 points the other with 90.

When Mackinnon won the MVP he had Rantanen with 40 goals and 100 points and Cale Makar with 90 points from the blueline.

Do you know who lead the Wild in scoring from the blueline for four of the five seasons Kaprisov has played? Jared f'n Spurgeon.

Don't like the contract but trying to discredit the player is insane. And while EE's post was hilariously condescending you're proving him right with posts like this.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

After a year long negotiation and not extending him. Could've backed the brinks truck up and paid him $11m/yr. So while I respect the facts as you present them, there is nuance, and a pattern with the organization.

Would I be happier watching a $11m/yr Gaudreau and Tkachuk right now...yes.

As for MacInnis...there was bad blood...I wonder why, as the guy got an instant 20% raise somewhere else from his contract offer. Similar happened to Nieuy the year after. There is a distinct pattern.

There’s no nuance. Gaudreau received the offer he wanted, above market value. It was the same deal that Huberdeau got, which was higher than anyone else receive who were not named MacKinnon— including what Gaudreau received from Columbus and Tkachuk got. The bar was pretty much in the $8-$9 for star players up to 2022.

He left for family reasons. Flames are willing to pay. The reason why Conroy is focussing so much on culture is he feels very much that it was culture that led to those stars leaving, not money.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

There’s no nuance. Gaudreau received the offer he wanted, above market value. It was the same deal that Huberdeau got, which was higher than anyone else receive who were not named MacKinnon— including what Gaudreau received from Columbus and Tkachuk got. The bar was pretty much in the $8-$9 for star players up to 2022.

He left for family reasons. Flames are willing to pay. The reason why Conroy is focussing so much on culture is he feels very much that it was culture that led to those stars leaving, not money.

It's my opinion that family reasons disappear at some point dollarwise. Also, those family reasons were allowed to emerge. The team could have extended him on day one a year before his deal came up. His ask wasn't met then. To me that is the nuance I am mentioning. So I agree with you on what happened in the last weeks. The seeds of losing our star were planted sooner.

Bringing it back to Kaprizov. Sure it's an overpay on comparables, but the Wild bought themselves peace of mind, and stability when they go to sell tickets.

Our team went another direction.

Also...if you negotiated with your current employer for a year and got market, and it was your third round where it was a grind. Well wouldn't your eyes be drifting elsewhere as well?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Don't like the contract but trying to discredit the player is insane. And while EE's post was hilariously condescending you're proving him right with posts like this.

I stand firm that my post was not condescending. Read through this entire thread from the beginning. There are some pretty bad takes. I really don’t think some fans on this forum have seen the guy play enough to appreciate just how good he is. I’m not in advanced stats expert, but I believe he also excels there as well. If he was a Flame we would love him like we did Iginla.

[dino7c]

I didn't discredit the player...I hope he outscores McDavid by 50 points so they can shut up about him being the best player. I question his ability to stay healthy now let alone into his 30s. He really put his team over a barrel with this deal he should have taken the 16M IMO. It's only 1M but at least pretend to care about winning.

Contract starts next season...can't really say one way or another for a few years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well we have common ground with Kaprizov. I have no problem with the Wild paying him what they did, as I see very little other choice for them.
Not sure I agree with signing players on the basis of things like jersey sales. I get you need stars, but up until that season, Johnny wasn't showing he was worth 11M. When he was the team was prepared to pay him.

Taking unfortunate events out of the picture the Gaudreau 10.5M contract they "had to give him" would have aged incredibly poorly