October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Looch City

As I understand it, Smith could mandate back to work legislation but the union could also just not follow it, similar to Air Canada situation.

Plus the legislature would have to return early from their summer break if they want to do anything before October 27.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by #-3

I'd also say to the comment of UPC members kids getting paid school board jobs. Their blatant and repeated corruption is not because of or exclusive to charter schools, and stopping that doesn't stop the problem.

I do think there is a decent labor organizing arguments that public schools and charter schools essentially have the same employer and that the charter schools are piggybacking the ATAs negotiations without paying dues. It's a fair but somewhat less sympathetic argument.

But they aren't private schools. The CBE runs a bunch of programs that are essentially charter programs, that also have a substantial bias towards more engaged and affluent families, and reject hundreds of qualified applicants every year. who I'm sure do a much much better job of fund raising. The CBE also has large capital requests and many ongoing projects, if you cherry pick a sample of this year, some programs might be seeing more than others and the upc might have some perverse interest in undermining public education as a whole, because it just seems to liberal for them. that is not directly related to the charter schools that have been around for a few decades either. I would also argue that the entire concept of ccsb is the same, it's an inherently exclusionary program that often has the first "public" school in a given neighborhood, there are a lot of programs that a consistent person who has an issue with charter schools as an institution should be going after.

I think this is the issue. Charter schools are private schools that are pretending to be public schools. However, unlike public schools, charters have separate boards of directors and different rules for admission or capacity and can accept private funding that public schools cannot. I guess you could view them as a "gateway drug" for conservative governments to destroy public education. But when you look at other jurisdictions you realize one thing stands out: Alberta is the only province giving public money to Charter schools.

Here is an editorial from the ATA last fall that sums it up better than I.

Also, I'll quote myself and the articles/reports that I looked at with their conclusions around the Charter system in Alberta.

Originally Posted by Wolven

Did you know that Charter schools in Alberta were an innovation experiment? The goal was for the charter schools to be flexible enough to try new education methods and then bring the successful methods back to the public school system.

Since Alberta charter schools started in the 1994, that was meant to be their function. In 2009 there was a report that still tried to pump the tires of "enhanced choice" but admitted the following:

• One of the original purposes of charter schools was that they would be centres of innovation and would share innovations with the rest of the system. This purpose has largely not been realized.

In my mind, if an experiment fails to fulfill its purpose you should either make adjustments to have it become successful or stop the experiment.

Here is another report from 2020 reviewing charter schools. To extract from the conclusions:

"Compared to many states in America joining the charter school movement, Alberta’s regulatory structures (including a limited/cap system, non-profit obligations, non-denominational affiliations, and adequate funding equalling the same per-pupil funding as other public schools) has made Alberta’s public education system better-off. Under the current government, however, there are signs that regulatory reforms will open up the province to a more Americanized model of charter school competition that may undermine the public system. Lifting the charter school cap follows the same trajectory of liberalization that has occurred in the US, which has largely resulted in a differentiated public system and inefficiencies caused by running two parallel systems of public schools under separate governance arrangements. By removing the participation of local school boards in an effort to streamline the system of charter approval, inefficiencies, redundancies, and unsystematic planning should also be reasonably expected. Regulatory oversight of charter school development that is transparent, equitable, and measured so that only providers offering the best possible opportunities for learners that are in the interests of the public and truly accountable to the public are permitted to operate is paramount.

It is also far from a guarantee that charter school competition will spur innovation and efficiency, as proponents claim. The established system of charter schools in the US has demonstrated this much. Charter schools in Alberta as they currently stand, working in collaboration with local school boards, play an important role in promoting the growth of specialized and alternative school programs within the public system. Yet, standalone charter schools have proven not be effective or equitably accessible for all learners. This is because barriers to access remain that represent impediments to real choice, such as supplemental fees associated with attending charter schools and independently-determined selection processes, which will not dissipate by liberalizing the charter school market. So, what then is there to gain systemically from such reforms that are expected to overhaul the system? Education reforms that settled for charter school liberalization and parental “choice” exercised in quasi-market environments, instead of a full-blown voucher system as was proposed during the UCP’s annual general meeting in November 2019, indicate the governments’ ambition to explore opening-up Alberta’s public education system to the private market. It is a playbook of policy reforms intent on privatizing public choice."

I would say that after 30+ years that is enough time to run an experiment. Charter schools should be given a choice to either convert to private schools or come back into the public system and bring all of their great learnings with them. If they have received a public built school then the building comes back to the public system no matter what.

Then, to your point Fuzz, let's try to give everyone the amazing experience that a few people are getting out of their charter school.

This is obviously a part of a much bigger issue than what is going on with the teacher strike but I think there are definitely links between the strategy the UCP has been demonstrating by giving larger and larger amounts of money to charter and private schools while also driving the whole province into this teacher's strike by refusing to put forth a reasonable offer to the teachers.

Also, I know many people who love Charter schools for being great to their kids. The point is not to take that away, the point is to give that to everyone.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

It could act as a committee item, but it leads to problem #2: fundraisers are an equity issue as GGG points out it. Schools in the SW will raise way more money than schools in the NE. Having worked in both quadrants, I can say even small scale parent involvement initiatives, such as parent council, reveal massive wealth gaps. A large public system like the CBE cannot be seen as endorsing initiatives that lead to such large inequitable outcomes.

You don’t even have to compared different quadrants. My wife was on the parent council at public schools in Cedarbrae and Oakridge, and the latter raised 5x as much money as the former. While in Cedarbrae, raising $83 in a bottle drive was a banner event, in Oakridge they raised thousands from parents simply writing $100 and $200 cheques.

[kevman]

Side note, kids have no hustle for bottle drives anymore. I remember hanging out the side of a mini van and running door to door to get bottles unannounced. Now they leave flyers in your mailbox asking you to drop them off at a set time, usually between 1:35pm and 1:40pm on a weekday, that's incredibly inconvenient.

The last pick up round they said to leave your cans out by 10am on Saturday. We put them out Friday night because we were going away for the weekend and when we came home on Sunday they were still there.

We've been hanging onto garbage bags full of empties all summer for "bottle drives" that never grab out bottles. At least the bottle pickers in the alley show some hustle.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by kevman

Side note, kids have no hustle for bottle drives anymore. I remember hanging out the side of a mini van and running door to door to get bottles unannounced. Now they leave flyers in your mailbox asking you to drop them off at a set time, usually between 1:35pm and 1:40pm on a weekday, that's incredibly inconvenient.

The last pick up round they said to leave your cans out by 10am on Saturday. We put them out Friday night because we were going away for the weekend and when we came home on Sunday they were still there.

We've been hanging onto garbage bags full of empties all summer for "bottle drives" that never grab out bottles. At least the bottle pickers in the alley show some hustle.

Because money comes easily these days. I see junior high kids hanging out at the Starbucks.

What could you afford when you were in Grade 8?

And it's our fault, we're the parents.

[Fuzz]

Inflation has also almost halved the value of returns since we were doing it in the 90's. I don't think they've ever really increased the amount, have they?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by kevman

Side note, kids have no hustle for bottle drives anymore. I remember hanging out the side of a mini van and running door to door to get bottles unannounced. Now they leave flyers in your mailbox asking you to drop them off at a set time, usually between 1:35pm and 1:40pm on a weekday, that's incredibly inconvenient.

The last pick up round they said to leave your cans out by 10am on Saturday. We put them out Friday night because we were going away for the weekend and when we came home on Sunday they were still there.

We've been hanging onto garbage bags full of empties all summer for "bottle drives" that never grab out bottles. At least the bottle pickers in the alley show some hustle.

3 weekends in a row I've had kids come to my door asking for bottles. I had nothing left to give the 3rd group! I guess your neighbourhood is too rich...

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by kevman

Side note, kids have no hustle for bottle drives anymore. I remember hanging out the side of a mini van and running door to door to get bottles unannounced. Now they leave flyers in your mailbox asking you to drop them off at a set time, usually between 1:35pm and 1:40pm on a weekday, that's incredibly inconvenient.

The last pick up round they said to leave your cans out by 10am on Saturday. We put them out Friday night because we were going away for the weekend and when we came home on Sunday they were still there.

We've been hanging onto garbage bags full of empties all summer for "bottle drives" that never grab out bottles. At least the bottle pickers in the alley show some hustle.

My kid hustles for bottles to support his solo sport. I'm happy to come by and pick them up with him from you at any time. I'll pick up bottles from anyone willing to donate to his sport.

He's a track and field athlete with CALTAF and is competing on a national level at both track and cross country.

IF anyone has bottles the are holding onto We will gladly come by and take them.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Inflation has also almost halved the value of returns since we were doing it in the 90's. I don't think they've ever really increased the amount, have they?

It last went up in 2009 when small containers went up from 5 cents to 10 cents (except beer was already 10 cents) and large containers went from 20 cents to 25 cents. That was also when they added milk containers to the deposit system.

That raise took ~20 years, so we're probably due for another increase within the next few years. I think 15 cents/35 cents would be reasonable. Although return rates are very high so maybe the current system is working fine.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It last went up in 2009 when small containers went up from 5 cents to 10 cents (except beer was already 10 cents) and large containers went from 20 cents to 25 cents. That was also when they added milk containers to the deposit system.

That raise took ~20 years, so we're probably due for another increase within the next few years. I think 15 cents/35 cents would be reasonable. Although return rates are very high so maybe the current system is working fine.

I think we are on autopilot on this one, and the whole system needs to go. It made sense before we had blue bins. Now most Alberta municipalities have recycling systems. Why do we run a parallel system of depots, trucks, staff, and people driving to these places and using their time inefficiently? It used to be if you didn't recycle, it went in the trash. So we incentived people to recycle these things. And it worked. Except now if you don't want the money you toss it in your blue bin. So why do we need a refund system at all? They'll still get recycled.


We could take all the money this parallel system costs and put it into funding for the homeless and poor and community needs, and it would do a lot more good than the make-work project we continue to run for no logical reason.

[woob]

I mean, saving bottles and bringing them in every few months is a pretty low effort endeavour. Our kids are highly involved in the process and get the money or we add it to travel funds for something fun when we go see family in BC.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by woob

I mean, saving bottles and bringing them in every few months is a pretty low effort endeavour. Our kids are highly involved in the process and get the money or we add it to travel funds for something fun when we go see family in BC.

But that doesn't change the reality that it's an anachronism providing very little if any economic benefit for the cost. When we talk about making Canada more efficient, it's looking at stuff like this and asking, ok, but why? So Woobie Jr can save for a vacation fund? I think we can look at other options there...and this isn't a slight against you using the system as it exists. But it really shouldn't exist anymore.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But that doesn't change the reality that it's an anachronism providing very little if any economic benefit for the cost. When we talk about making Canada more efficient, it's looking at stuff like this and asking, ok, but why? So Woobie Jr can save for a vacation fund? I think we can look at other options there...and this isn't a slight against you using the system as it exists. But it really shouldn't exist anymore.

Eliminating refunds and depots takes away a source of revenue for some people which could exacerbate their financial situation.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Eliminating refunds and depots takes away a source of revenue for some people which could exacerbate their financial situation.

Maybe if we had proper social services, like universal basic income, then people would not need to rely on picking empty bottles for revenue (which was never the intention of the depot system).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Eliminating refunds and depots takes away a source of revenue for some people which could exacerbate their financial situation.

It's almost like you didn't read my previous post.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But that doesn't change the reality that it's an anachronism providing very little if any economic benefit for the cost. When we talk about making Canada more efficient, it's looking at stuff like this and asking, ok, but why? So Woobie Jr can save for a vacation fund? I think we can look at other options there...and this isn't a slight against you using the system as it exists. But it really shouldn't exist anymore.

The better answer is likely to get rid of municipal recycling. The world has an excess of collected plastic that isn’t recycled. Paper has high rates of contamination when using a mixed system and aluminum the most valuable recycling commodity is well recycled through the deposit system and beer bottles are reused rather than crushed

So let’s put the EPR to general municipal revenues and give back the $25 a year we currently pay and go back to the system where we see the consequence of our garbage rather than pretend recycling works.

[Sylvanfan]

How much do you people drink? Over the course of a year I might get $100 for whatever bottles and other containers that I do return, and I haven't tracked it on a spreadsheet like say DoubleF would...but maybe give away $25 to the local groups who drop by during the year looking for them. Oddly enough they all seem to show up at the same time so one gets something while the others get nothing, than I don't see anyone for like another 12 months. So that $125 in deposits that I get back or giveaway...we can order Pizza for takeout and buy a tank of gas. Not exactly life changing money.

[Johnny Makarov]

Weird. I thought with the strike the roads would be less busy, but seems like it's even busier. I guess parents have to drive their kids around before work?

With the charter schools both my kids are still going to school, which is great for my son in Grade 12. My daughter in grade 9 is indifferent but both are not happy they still have to goto Chinese school on Saturdays.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

I agree with you in principle, but in Calgary the CCSD is run significantly better than the CBE. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with management.

The same management that refused to participate in delivering the HPV vaccine to young girls until they were forced to by public outcry from parents and the health community?

Sorry, I prefer the management that doesn't put our children's health at risk.

[malcolmk14]

I'm a teacher on strike, I'll take your bottles! Lol