October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Charters get 100% of the funding public gets and have to take applicants on a lottery basis. They don't/can't charge tuition.

Private schools get a fraction of the public level funding from the government and can be more selective if they want to (eg some have an admissions test). They can charge additional tuition without a limit.

IMO the problem isn't charters or private schools - the problem is the government systemically underfunding education in the province.

Technically a fraction, but 70% is a pretty large amount considering the freedoms and the amount of per-student spending private schools are synonymous with. It’s also the highest percentage in the entire country.

If private schools had more oversight and were held to the same reporting standards and transparency as public schools, I doubt it’d be an issue. Certainly few who take issue with private schools are taking issue with those designed for children with special needs and have greater funding needs because of that, but more so the “elite” schools that are charging well over $10k and still getting government funding without any measurable benefit.

I’m not sure the parents of children at West Island are really going to hurt paying an additional 10% if that funding was brought in-line with BC, for example.

While I agree the problem is under funding the public system, I think there’s probably a better equation where public funding could actually increase by decreasing some cases of private funding. It doesn’t have to be “current state” or “close all the private schools” as the two options.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Technically a fraction, but 70% is a pretty large amount considering the freedoms and the amount of per-student spending private schools are synonymous with. It’s also the highest percentage in the entire country.

If private schools had more oversight and were held to the same reporting standards and transparency as public schools, I doubt it’d be an issue. Certainly few who take issue with private schools are taking issue with those designed for children with special needs and have greater funding needs because of that, but more so the “elite” schools that are charging well over $10k and still getting government funding without any measurable benefit.

I’m not sure the parents of children at West Island are really going to hurt paying an additional 10% if that funding was brought in-line with BC, for example.

While I agree the problem is under funding the public system, I think there’s probably a better equation where public funding could actually increase by decreasing some cases of private funding. It doesn’t have to be “current state” or “close all the private schools” as the two options.

I don't think private schools should be closed. I think they should be privately funded, as their name implies.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by #-3

What kind of school did you go to? 7/10 is a fraction.

I have not and would not argue for a for profit school charging $20000-$30000 / year getting g funding. I was just arguing that charter schools are not the same as those schools.

15/10 is also a fraction. Are you going to pedantically spin that angle as well?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

While we're in search of positive changes to the education system in this province, can we please do away with Catholic and all religion based schools and just have public schools?

Sadly, this requires an amendment to the Canadian Constitution. Apparently it was one of the conditions of confederacy.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Sadly, this requires an amendment to the Canadian Constitution. Apparently it was one of the conditions of confederacy.

Yeah, I dont really know why people even keep bringing it up. Its not going to happen no matter how much anyone might wish. Deal with the problems that can be dealt with.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

15/10 is also a fraction. Are you going to pedantically spin that angle as well?

In sorry, that 7/10 was a joke. It was funny to me

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

While we're in search of positive changes to the education system in this province, can we please do away with Catholic and all religion based schools and just have public schools?

You have churches that sit empty for 6 days a week. THAT's where the religion classes should be held.

Or we could not allow religious indoctrination of children at all. That would be a real win for society.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Sadly, this requires an amendment to the Canadian Constitution. Apparently it was one of the conditions of confederacy.

Alright, open 'er up. Pipelines for secular education. Lets do it.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

While we're in search of positive changes to the education system in this province, can we please do away with Catholic and all religion based schools and just have public schools?

You have churches that sit empty for 6 days a week. THAT's where the religion classes should be held.

I agree with you in principle, but in Calgary the CCSD is run significantly better than the CBE. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with management.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Public schools don’t fundraise. The Parent Society of a school may fundraise but there are strict limits on what they can spend the money on.

Just because they don't doesn't mean they can't. I honestly don't know if charter schools fundraise either but they can. In both cases it just requires an administrator or teacher to oversee the fundraising efforts.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Just because they don't doesn't mean they can't. I honestly don't know if charter schools fundraise either but they can. In both cases it just requires an administrator or teacher to oversee the fundraising efforts.

Oh good. We get the burden of financial management of schools now too. In addition to kid activities, hockey, scouts, band, whatever the hell else your kid does. Now we get our hands out to pay for public education because our government can’t figure out the time tested strategy that’s worked for >100 years. It’s kind of like a different kind of fundraising. It’s called collecting taxes and then disbursing them to public education.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Just because they don't doesn't mean they can't. I honestly don't know if charter schools fundraise either but they can. In both cases it just requires an administrator or teacher to oversee the fundraising efforts.

The problem with this is one of demographics.

Charter schools skew wealthier and therefore fundraising is more successful. Charter schools essentially have students from a cohort more likely to be successful at life than the average cohort in society.

As much as people like to say they are open to everyone there are non official barriers. Sometimes as simple as bussing and transportation that serve as differentiators in demographic groups.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Just because they don't doesn't mean they can't. I honestly don't know if charter schools fundraise either but they can. In both cases it just requires an administrator or teacher to oversee the fundraising efforts.

You say that like it’s easy to find a teacher running a fundraiser. Who is going to end up planning the entire event? It’ll be tons of hours of work- hours that teachers don’t have because that’ll be on top of teaching 3 x 38 students, doing an extracurricular, and being part of a committee.

It could act as a committee item, but it leads to problem #2: fundraisers are an equity issue as GGG points out it. Schools in the SW will raise way more money than schools in the NE. Having worked in both quadrants, I can say even small scale parent involvement initiatives, such as parent council, reveal massive wealth gaps. A large public system like the CBE cannot be seen as endorsing initiatives that lead to such large inequitable outcomes.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Oh good. We get the burden of financial management of schools now too. In addition to kid activities, hockey, scouts, band, whatever the hell else your kid does. Now we get our hands out to pay for public education because our government can’t figure out the time tested strategy that’s worked for >100 years. It’s kind of like a different kind of fundraising. It’s called collecting taxes and then disbursing them to public education.

Hasn't it been that way for a long time though. Like many folks here I was in elementary late 80's and early 90's and we always had fundraisers going on. We had those Scholastic book sales where the school would get kickbacks from Scholastic. We had chocolate sales, we had those Christmas catalogue sales (I still remember those big ass drums of popcorn) and many other things. There was actually a lot more fundraising when I was in school than there is now with my kids.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

The bolded isn't how non-profits work. They just can't distribute the surplus but can carry a reserve.

Sure they can "distribute the surplus". They can pick a thing and spend money on it. Replace all of the carpets even though they are only a year old or paint the walls again or pay someone to wash the windows that are not dirty or buy all new computers for the lab (and donate the 1 year old computers to their friends).

For a guy who has "corporate" in his name you sure are naive about how nepotism and cronyism works.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Sadly, this requires an amendment to the Canadian Constitution. Apparently it was one of the conditions of confederacy.

That’s true, but some provinces have amalgamated the boards. They still have to provide the options, but there’s no requirement for two of all of the bureaucrats.

[fotze2]

Can this go to essential service back to work thing like they do for nurses or is that not an option? What does that look like?

[Looch City]

As I understand it, Smith could mandate back to work legislation but the union could also just not follow it, similar to Air Canada situation.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Sadly, this requires an amendment to the Canadian Constitution. Apparently it was one of the conditions of confederacy.

Only in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Ontario are Catholic schools still funded by the government. Newfoundland & Labrador and Quebec used to have publicly funded Catholic schools and have had the Federal Government allow them to defund the Catholic schools.

With there being a precedent already in place all we need is a government bold enough to follow through.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course it's a fraction. But when someone says "they receive a fraction" the implication is it's not very much.

0/10 is also a fraction. So is 10/10. So just saying "they receive a fraction" is either a bit disingenuous or just meaningless.

My apologies. Posting from my phone and couldn't recall the exact amount, and didn't want to guess at it to be pedantically corrected. Feel free to read my post above as "they receive 70% of the public funding".

I still maintain that the issue isn't funding well-off kids at 70% of regular payments - it's not spending enough in total, and making it an us-vs-them issue is a mistake. It should be an everyone-vs-UCP issue.