Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can't really call it a bogeyman when it happens about half the time lol

What contemporary fiscally prudent NDP governments can you point to? Horgan in BC, Romanov/Calvert in Sask, Doer/Selinger in MB. All great governments.

What imprudently NDP governments can you point to? BC in the 1990s, BC today, AB under Notely, Bob Rae in ON. All disasters.

Now this guy's nickname is literally Spendshi. Does that sound like a fiscally prudent or fiscally imprudent NDP leader?

1) What exactly was a disaster about Alberta under Notely? In what ways was she worse than what we currently have

2) Hey guys, Conservatives are calling Nenshi Spendshi. They have no ulterior motive to making up a nickname that aligns with how they want to paint him. So it must be true that he is a terrible financial disaster waiting to happen. Oh, by the way. I refer to Danielle Smith as "Danielle, the worst thing to ever happen to this province fiscally, socially, and reputationally".
Seriously, does someone who's nickname is literally that bad sound like a prudent leader?

[Julio]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can't really call it a bogeyman when it happens about half the time lol

What contemporary fiscally prudent NDP governments can you point to? Horgan in BC, Romanov/Calvert in Sask, Doer/Selinger in MB. All great governments.

What imprudently NDP governments can you point to? BC in the 1990s, BC today, AB under Notely, Bob Rae in ON. All disasters.

Now this guy's nickname is literally Spendshi. Does that sound like a fiscally prudent or fiscally imprudent NDP leader?

Romanow not Romanov. A small thing, but something that Premier Romanow clapped back on when somebody else made that error. One is Ukrainian, the other is Russian.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

1) What exactly was a disaster about Alberta under Notely? In what ways was she worse than what we currently have

2) Hey guys, Conservatives are calling Nenshi Spendshi. They have no ulterior motive to making up a nickname that aligns with how they want to paint him. So it must be true that he is a terrible financial disaster waiting to happen. Oh, by the way. I refer to Danielle Smith as "Danielle, the worst thing to ever happen to this province fiscally, socially, and reputationally".
Seriously, does someone who's nickname is literally that bad sound like a prudent leader?

I refer to Danielle Smith as "Marlaina" because that is the name on their birth certificate and I haven't had the time to inform their parents that she would like me to call them by their Woke name.

I also use them/their as their pronouns because I also haven't been given permission to use their "gendered pronouns".

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Can't really call it a bogeyman when it happens about half the time lol

What contemporary fiscally prudent NDP governments can you point to? Horgan in BC, Romanov/Calvert in Sask, Doer/Selinger in MB. All great governments.

What imprudently NDP governments can you point to? BC in the 1990s, BC today, AB under Notely, Bob Rae in ON. All disasters.

Now this guy's nickname is literally Spendshi. Does that sound like a fiscally prudent or fiscally imprudent NDP leader?

Super fiscally prudent:

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...eficit-tax-cut

[GGG]

We haven’t had a conservative government in this province since the first 4 years of Klein.

That is likely the only conservative government this province have ever had.

The remainder of Alberta’s governments have had per capita spending amongst the highest in Canada and led Canada in providing services. Other provinces have had to make harder decisions in regards to taxation and PST.

Alberta has used oil and gas to subsidize our low tax rates and high spending. We only believe we are fiscal conservatives when in reality we have always been and still are high spending socialists using debt to bail out low oil prices.

We get social conservative baggage without fiscal conservatism.

[#-3]

I'd actually strongly argue that the final 30 months of the ANDP was fairly conservative by most fiscal and social measures, after a few oversteps early on. And it's entirely possible that if they had been a little more true to their own values and acted a little more populist or liberal that would have stood a better change of beating Smith (they were never going to beat Kenny).

I also think you discredit Ed Stelmach who at least existed in the vein of traditional conservatism, but was steadily overtaken as the right departed from any conservative values, and towards primarily reactionary social policy paired with fiscal wish casting about an imagined reality that never was.

[Ashartus]

If you actually look at the details of the data (as opposed to assumptions of how parties must be fiscally based on how they portray themselves), their first year the NDP honestly weren't great but were also trying to deal with the oil industry having just collapsed. After that their track record was actually pretty good and the province's finances were on a good trajectory. Then Kenney took over, chopped the corporate income tax causing revenue to drop further and gave us the biggest pre-Covid deficit in Alberta history. The Smith UCP were not any better and the only reason we had surpluses was due to high oil prices.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

UCP Supporters: There is too much immigration and we are losing "Canadian Values"

Teachers: Ok, let's build up our teaching capacity and we can help integrate new Canadians by teaching them about our customs and history.


UCP Supporters: No. Not that.

We are disproportionately underfunded by the federal government compared to the Quebec, Ontario and BC with respect to immigration. The surge in population in Alberta since Covid and the Ukranian war has put a lot of pressure on classrooms and we aren't being adequately compensated for that. There is enough blame to go around on that issue.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I refer to Danielle Smith as "Marlaina" because that is the name on their birth certificate and I haven't had the time to inform their parents that she would like me to call them by their Woke name.

I also use them/their as their pronouns because I also haven't been given permission to use their "gendered pronouns".

I call Danielle Smith "bus boobs". Does someone whose nickname is literally "bus boobs" sound like her breasts arrive at the bus stop on schedule? NO!

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“Fascinating” is a really kind way to phrase it. False consciousness in action is one of the dumbest, self-defeating, and embarrassing things to observe, period.

You’ve got one side of the dispute full of people like “you,” with needs/wants like you, who are workers like you, who pay taxes like you, and whose entire job only exists to serve you (even if you don’t have kids, their role serves the society you depend on) in an area totally essential to your wellbeing… and you’ve still got people who share or benefit from those traits who would rather put their hand on the shoulders of those people like them to keep them down (in some completely nonsensical hope it raises themselves up).

In my experience, the type of people that are most likely to argue against public sector workers (if they’re not government officials) are either just general bootlickers on every topic or have a wildly inflated sense of their own importance. Like I’m sure the “would ya take a 20% pay cut” guy is providing a lot of value for society, but I suspect they’d prefer their wages, job performance, and responsibilities weren’t the subject of constant public scrutiny by people who have no idea as to what they’re talking about.

I work in the private sector myself and deal with a lot of different industries. Forget people who make more, there’s plenty of people who make less than teachers who are wildly overpaid or whose jobs are so low value that they’re on the precipice of being made redundant and don’t even realize it. They should be more careful who they side with.

So is anyone arguing against public sector workers is a bootlicker? What is an appropriate raise to give to teachers before it's too much? There obviously is a ceiling, people just disagree about what that ceiling should be. I'm not sure why you have make such ridiculous assumptions about anyone let alone the name calling.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

We are disproportionately underfunded by the federal government compared to the Quebec, Ontario and BC with respect to immigration. The surge in population in Alberta since Covid and the Ukranian war has put a lot of pressure on classrooms and we aren't being adequately compensated for that. There is enough blame to go around on that issue.

Oh there it is, the persecution complex. Nothing to do with decades of under funding and band-aids to poor decisions. No, it's the immigrants and the feds. But I guess to recognize reality you'd also have to accept your own responsibility in supporting the same stupid strategies from the same stupid governments for so long.


Don't like how things have unfolded over decades? Maybe try doing something different.

[puffnstuff]

Theres no way Lucy would pull the football away THIS time...

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

We are disproportionately underfunded by the federal government compared to the Quebec, Ontario and BC with respect to immigration. The surge in population in Alberta since Covid and the Ukranian war has put a lot of pressure on classrooms and we aren't being adequately compensated for that. There is enough blame to go around on that issue.

No, the blame can sit primarily with the conservatives. There is no "both sides" on this issue.

1) The UCP should stop constantly turning away federal funding or demanding that they get funding that is earmarked for specific federal policies to be given to them with "no strings attached".

If the funding is to help childcare then ensure it helps childcare. If the funding is for dental care then ensure the people are getting properly funded dental care. But no, the UCP want to grift that money to O&G or MHCare or just turn the money away instead of letting it get to the people who might benefit from it.

2) If you are talking about equalization, why not complain about the architect of equalization? Harper and Kenney specifically. Those good ol' Alberta boys were running the country and put these equalization formulas in place.

3) If you want to blame someone for the surge in Alberta's population, the conservatives were the ones spending taxpayer dollars to put up billboards in other provinces saying "Alberta is calling".

4) The main thing putting pressure on classrooms is the UCP massively underfunding education (not the immigration boogeyman). The only people who need to be adequately compensated for the bigger classrooms are the teachers and they need to be compensated by the provincial government, not the feds.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

So is anyone arguing against public sector workers is a bootlicker? What is an appropriate raise to give to teachers before it's too much? There obviously is a ceiling, people just disagree about what that ceiling should be. I'm not sure why you have make such ridiculous assumptions about anyone let alone the name calling.

Anyone arguing against the interests of any workers, public or private, are bootlickers. “Their” interests are actually our interests, including your interests.

The appropriate raise is as much as they can get. As a worker, advocating for a ceiling is arguing for a ceiling for yourself, your kids, your friends, etc. As surprising as this may be, you don’t actually have to have an opinion on what the opinion should be or what an appropriate raise is. You can just support workers, since you are one, and what’s good for them is good for you.

What’s your worry, teachers will make a million dollars? lol

[TheIronMaiden]

Here is another one.


Sliver: There are too many meth heads in Calgary

Teachers: More staff means that we can better intervene in the lives of children with difficult circumstances and help children avoid drug abuse as a coping mechanism.

Sliver: No. Not that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by woob

But nah let’s just continue to vilify teachers…

Is anyone here vilifying teachers? Quotes?

I’ve seen people say teaching is a good job. But it’s quite a spin to call that vilification.

YMMV, but I think any job that pays in the top 25 per cent, has a guaranteed pension*, and doesn’t involve routine exposure to violence or injury, is a good job.

* If teachers’ pensions are so bad, it’s odd that teachers retire on average 4 years earlier than the general Canadian population.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

YMMV, but I think any job that pays in the top 25 per cent, has a guaranteed pension*, and doesn’t involve routine exposure to violence or injury, is a good job.
.

Teachers being routinely exposed to violence or injuries has risen dramatically since you were in class. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn it’s a factor in their decision to retire earlier than the other vocations.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Is anyone here vilifying teachers? Quotes?

I’ve seen people say teaching is a good job. But it’s quite a spin to call that vilification.

YMMV, but I think any job that pays in the top 25 per cent, has a guaranteed pension*, and doesn’t involve routine exposure to violence or injury, is a good job.

* If teachers’ pensions are so bad, it’s odd that teachers retire on average 4 years earlier than the general Canadian population.

I agree with you on all points with 2 clarifications.

1) the average person could have a teacher quality retirement plan if they put aside the same amount of money that teachers contribute to their pensions.

2) no routine exposure to violence is sadly becoming less reasonable of an assumption for a teaching career.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

We are disproportionately underfunded by the federal government compared to the Quebec, Ontario and BC with respect to immigration. The surge in population in Alberta since Covid and the Ukranian war has put a lot of pressure on classrooms and we aren't being adequately compensated for that. There is enough blame to go around on that issue.

It was downright evil of the Feds to start that "Alberta is calling" campaign back in mid 2022 to encourage more people to move to Alberta

https://zgm.ca/work/alberta-is-calling/

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anyone arguing against the interests of any workers, public or private, are bootlickers. “Their” interests are actually our interests, including your interests.

The appropriate raise is as much as they can get. As a worker, advocating for a ceiling is arguing for a ceiling for yourself, your kids, your friends, etc. As surprising as this may be, you don’t actually have to have an opinion on what the opinion should be or what an appropriate raise is. You can just support workers, since you are one, and what’s good for them is good for you.

What’s your worry, teachers will make a million dollars? lol

What's my worry? I'm literally paying for this. Who else should worry about this?