Why won't the Libs help make our streets safer?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The Senate has been on summer break since June 22.

Yes, and it was hoped that they would have passed it before the break.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Yes, and it was hoped that they would have passed it before the break.

It took 5 weeks to go through the lower House. The Senate only had it for 9 days.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It took 5 weeks to go through the lower House. The Senate only had it for 9 days.

Quit paying attention to the facts dammit.....!!!#$@#%!

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, I agree that some changes should be made and that things could be improved. Those changes don't have to be strict sentences and capital punishment though.

I know that you read this and think that I'm a hard left bleeding heart liberal, but that is not accurate. I just get tired of having the worst case scenario thrown out as a justification of why we should have capital punishment or "three strikes and you're out" type legislation.

Maybe the question on this thread should also wonder why the Conservatives won't ban handguns to make our streets safer?

Not sure where you are getting the capital punishment and three stikes and your out ideas...because no one is pushing that nor is it in the legislation.

As for banning handguns.....I don't want to seem like I am being a jerk here but really? Why can't you people think out of the box? Do you really think banning guns will stop gang members and organized criminals from obtaining them and using them??? I don't know the exact numbers but I would venture to guess that almost all guns used by these people are either stolen or smuggled weapons....inwhich case a ban would do nothing to stop these people from obtaining these weapons.

Not to mention, our history of banning things has never stopped people from obtaining them and using them. Alcohol, drugs, prohibited weapons....oh ya....crime. Crime is banned in this country yet it happens every day.....so a ban will never work, it will only hurt law abiding citizens.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It took 5 weeks to go through the lower House. The Senate only had it for 9 days.

Actually the senate recieved it the 1st of june....and without going into a debate about the usefulness of the senate the house of commons is where the majority of time is needed to debate these bills. It was passed by a majority of members in the house of commons meaning both conservatives and other parties. This isnt't some feel good bill that we can take our time to debate....people could die because these bills are not passed. And I am not trying to be over dramatic.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by evman150

Because bad people don't have rights...right?

What the hell are you talking about??? So your saying that people who use guns to commit crime have the right to what exactly???

[Slava]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Not sure where you are getting the capital punishment and three stikes and your out ideas...because no one is pushing that nor is it in the legislation.

As for banning handguns.....I don't want to seem like I am being a jerk here but really? Why can't you people think out of the box? Do you really think banning guns will stop gang members and organized criminals from obtaining them and using them??? I don't know the exact numbers but I would venture to guess that almost all guns used by these people are either stolen or smuggled weapons....inwhich case a ban would do nothing to stop these people from obtaining these weapons.

Not to mention, our history of banning things has never stopped people from obtaining them and using them. Alcohol, drugs, prohibited weapons....oh ya....crime. Crime is banned in this country yet it happens every day.....so a ban will never work, it will only hurt law abiding citizens.

Is there something really original about prison as an idea that I'm missing? I'm pretty sure that it has been around since the beginning of time and we still have crime rising through the history of man!

You're just pushing your right-wing tough on crime belief here. There is no proof that this legislation will save any lives, and no proof that these measures prevent even one less crime from taking place. All this means is that the penalty is more severe after the crime takes place. Its purely reactive.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

As for banning handguns.....I don't want to seem like I am being a jerk here but really? Why can't you people think out of the box?

Longer prison sentences isn't exactly "thinking outside the box". It's actually thinking inside the box. Or, I guess, inside the cell.

[guzzy]

quick answer-it was the libs who eliminated the death penalty. It was the libs who made a life sentence 15 years, later changing it to 25. It was the libs who introduced the young offenders act. The libs are a joke. There needs to be fear of repercussion in this country. All violent crimes should be punished to the full extent of the law, regardless of age (12 and over). The lib dominated senate only cares about the liberal agenda and making the conservatives look bad, and they are dumb enough to not realize they are only making themselves look bad. The conservatives had the first elected senator (an Albertan) in the house for the first time in over 25 years. It just shows some accountability to the votes,......finally. I hate liberals and their socialist agenda. Socialism is a great thing in the right system but in Canada it just breeds laziness.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is there something really original about prison as an idea that I'm missing? I'm pretty sure that it has been around since the beginning of time and we still have crime rising through the history of man!

You're just pushing your right-wing tough on crime belief here. There is no proof that this legislation will save any lives, and no proof that these measures prevent even one less crime from taking place. All this means is that the penalty is more severe after the crime takes place. Its purely reactive.

Because when something happens the most original thing to do is ban it...right? Good one. Real original.

You want to know what is more original (because it rarely happens here in Canada).....is lets punish criminals for the crimes that they do...better yet...lets make sure violent offenders actually have to serve sufficient time before they are released...how about that?

Let me give you a very real certainty.....that a violent offender in prison WILL NOT be committing violent acts in society.

As much as you want to rehabilitate these people and intigrate them into society.....many....many cannot. Is it reactive...yup...no one said it isn't...but once people get to a certain point, sometimes there is nothing you can do but keep them from hurting more people.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Longer prison sentences isn't exactly "thinking outside the box". It's actually thinking inside the box. Or, I guess, inside the cell.

It;s more about the minimum sentences and reverse bail onus then longer prison terms. It is much more out of the box than....lets ban it.

[Slava]

I can see that this conversation is headed nowhere fast. Your stance is that we should put everyone into prison and punish them for crimes. Of course this does nothing when it comes to crimes of passion or most organized crime. The fact is that these individuals are not thinking of the ramifications of their actions at the time of commiting the crime. The punishment is there only so that there is an element of revenge.

My stance is not to rehabilitate everyone. In fact if you care to go back I have never said this. I just wish that the focus could go to proactive solutions such as helping the bottom element in our society, improving their situations and giving them real options. This is the way to reduce crime, no question about it.

Of course when it comes to offenders like Clifford Olsen and such they cannot be rehabilitated and released. No party anywhere is advocating this type of thing and quite frankly its insulting for you to insinuate otherwise.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can see that this conversation is headed nowhere fast. Your stance is that we should put everyone into prison and punish them for crimes. Of course this does nothing when it comes to crimes of passion or most organized crime. The fact is that these individuals are not thinking of the ramifications of their actions at the time of commiting the crime. The punishment is there only so that there is an element of revenge.

My stance is not to rehabilitate everyone. In fact if you care to go back I have never said this. I just wish that the focus could go to proactive solutions such as helping the bottom element in our society, improving their situations and giving them real options. This is the way to reduce crime, no question about it.

Of course when it comes to offenders like Clifford Olsen and such they cannot be rehabilitated and released. No party anywhere is advocating this type of thing and quite frankly its insulting for you to insinuate otherwise.

Yup....I said put everyone in prison. When it comes to violent crimes...yes....put them in jail. You might change your mind a little if you ever become the victim of a home invasion or robbery. Yes, I think your tune might change a little from lets help them to lets not let this happen to another person.

Organized crime....they aren't thinking of the consequences??? They aren't thinking of the ramifications??? Are you for real? These people know exactly what will happen to them if they are caught...that is why they are organized....so they don't get caught. Holy cow...

As for your proactive solutions....there are many systems in place already to help the less fortunate and yes things always need to be improved...but what typical liberal mantra....it is always someone elses fault, usually society....no accountability, poor, poor criminal.

Yes, we need to continue to help these people with a hand up....not a hand out...but when it doesn't work, they need to be removed from society.

[Slava]

I think that I'm just going to let this drop. You're just twisting this now and missing my point totally. You win...you've bored me into submission.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What the hell are you talking about??? So your saying that people who use guns to commit crime have the right to what exactly???

They are still human beings. This is not a fascist country where we lock people up and throw away the key, which seems to be what you want, to some extent (or at least you would like to slide onto the slippery slope of which that consequence resides at the bottom of).

[PsYcNeT]

36 posts and Godwin's Law has been enforced.

Thread over!

[Thor]

Its too bad there is such an angry atmosphere of liberal vs conservative partisanship.

I really miss good hearted debate where you didnt loathe the people who dont share your vision.

I mean I am for intelligently supporting smart laws that will benefit society.

How many of us read the bills, understand what exactly is at stake? How many of us are drawing lines in sand because its what our political views tell us to think.

Partisanship will destroy us all!

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its too bad there is such an angry atmosphere of liberal vs conservative partisanship.

I really miss good hearted debate where you didnt loathe the people who dont share your vision.

I mean I am for intelligently supporting smart laws that will benefit society.

How many of us read the bills, understand what exactly is at stake? How many of us are drawing lines in sand because its what our political views tell us to think.

Partisanship will destroy us all!

I have read the bill and the new laws that would come into force when it is passed. I would support this bill if the NDP had brought it before the how....but the fact is they didn't nor did the Libs when they were in power for 13 years.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just wish that the focus could go to proactive solutions such as helping the bottom element in our society, improving their situations and giving them real options. This is the way to reduce crime, no question about it.

###

I should make a thread called "Why do Conservatives only want to punish crime, and not prevent it?"

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by guzzy

quick answer-it was the libs who eliminated the death penalty...The libs are a joke. There needs to be fear of repercussion in this country.

and what happened to murder rates after they did that?
how many high profile wrongful convictions can you think of since then that likely would have been wrongful death penalties?

geez, what a black day in Canada's history when the Libs did that