Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by you&me

I think Porsche's value proposition (relatively speaking) is still great, and probably as good or better than it's been for a while.

If you think the price / prestige ratio of a Porsche is out of whack because the C4S is $200k (for example), then you might want to avert your eyes from the Ferrari and Lambo price lists... Like for like, Porsche represents phenomenal value when compared to those other brands... and that's before factoring in TCO including depreciation, etc.

I think to some people, Porsche’s success is also part of what detracts from them. They are everywhere… and with good reason, they make cars with amazing handling and great performance characteristics no matter if you’re buying a base model Boxster or a top-of-the-range 911.

But it certainly makes them feel less “special” when you see them all over the place.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I feel like I sorta see a predator mask in that TT concept...

I saw General Grievous

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Speaking of potentially controversial car designs...a new Audi TT concept was released.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ports-car-2027





On one hand, It's a departure from what they have now and like that it doesn't have 50 things going on....but on the other, it reminds me a little too much of that slab-sided Jaguar. Not a huge fan of the minimization of windows either.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by you&me

I think Porsche's value proposition (relatively speaking) is still great, and probably as good or better than it's been for a while.

If you think the price / prestige ratio of a Porsche is out of whack because the C4S is $200k (for example), then you might want to avert your eyes from the Ferrari and Lambo price lists... Like for like, Porsche represents phenomenal value when compared to those other brands... and that's before factoring in TCO including depreciation, etc.

No way you will ever convince me that Porsche represents phenomenal value. Any model trim of the C8 Corvette is a phenomenal performance value. Heck the current M3 Competitions are making supercar numbers these days.

[Table 5]

I thought Porsche's were out of whack, and then I look at everything else. Most BMW's and Audi's are in the high double digits (with some pushing deep into the 100s). Even on the lower end things are dumb. A little while back I tried to price out a new Civic thinking they would make a good daily. $40K for non-SI hatchback Sport, $65K for an R. That $90/100K Cayman/Boxster doesn't look quite so pricey in comparison. And at $40-70K you can get a hell of a good used Porsche.

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I think to some people, Porsche’s success is also part of what detracts from them. They are everywhere… and with good reason, they make cars with amazing handling and great performance characteristics no matter if you’re buying a base model Boxster or a top-of-the-range 911.

But it certainly makes them feel less “special” when you see them all over the place.

For sure, they aren't as special from a numbers perspective. I saw two 911's and one Boxster on my 15 block drive to work this morning.

But logically speaking, it makes sense why...you get the performance, you get relatively good reliability, you get much better value retention compared to the competition. Anytime time you sit down and look at things logically, the Porsche comes out on top as the one to buy. To buy anything else, the emotional really aspect needs to win out (and I'm glad it does for many, because variety is what makes things interesting).

[Table 5]

Corvette's have always been great value...their numbers/dollar have been hard to beat for a long time. Personally, I just haven't really liked the way they look since the C6...way too much going on.

I think a Miata is still a great value. Definitely not in terms of numbers, but absolutely in terms of fun factor/dollar.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No way you will ever convince me that Porsche represents phenomenal value. Any model trim of the C8 Corvette is a phenomenal performance value. Heck the current M3 Competitions are making supercar numbers these days.

I wasn't trying to convince you; I was just telling you what I think based on the comment you made.

You called the value "obscene" by comparing the prestige to Lambos and Ferraris (I disagree)... You didn't (originally) say Porsches were bad value compared to M3s and Corvettes...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

For sure, they aren't as special from a numbers perspective. I saw two 911's and one Boxster on my 15 block drive to work this morning.

To me there's value in flying under the radar, anyway. I don't like ostentatious shows of wealth. I'd feel like the biggest dooooosh in the world driving around a Lambo or Ferrari. They're way too 'look at me'. One of the best parts of a Porsche, to me, is you can get a phenomenal car for you while looking almost like you're in a commodity vehicle in some ways. Like, they're common enough that you aren't really attracting attention.

Getting a car so people look at you or to get outside attention is super weird, IMO.

[DoubleF]

Value is subjective though and just because something is the best value doesn't also mean it's the best purchase/option.

A Porsche Cayenne might be better value than the Honda Odyssey I buy from a long term value holding perspective and performance perspective. But it might also be a worse financial decision for me due to financing cost/opportunity cost and a worse choice for my situational needs (I actually have 6-7 passengers in the vehicle multiple times a month).

I agree with Sliver about flying under the radar is where I like things for me. Troll job would be a bit of a bonus. If I win the lottery and money is no object, I'd love a modded daily driver that is an insanely practical vehicle that is also a sleeper. Like... a normal looking Odyssey (I don't like the feel of the Sienna) that is modded to AWD as a PHEV or ICE (ie: Prologue EV motor add on to Phev or Pilot drive train) and also has like 400+HP and powerful brakes? Hell yeah!

Something that someone driving a performance vehicle would suddenly wonder how an innocuous vehicle like an Odyssey van is not being left behind. It's not to say I wouldn't also love some exotics or collectibles, but I don't think I would suddenly think I need to have something like a Porsche as a daily driver. As a fun car though, certainly.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

To me there's value in flying under the radar, anyway. I don't like ostentatious shows of wealth. I'd feel like the biggest dooooosh in the world driving around a Lambo or Ferrari. They're way too 'look at me'. One of the best parts of a Porsche, to me, is you can get a phenomenal car for you while looking almost like you're in a commodity vehicle in some ways. Like, they're common enough that you aren't really attracting attention.

Getting a car so people look at you or to get outside attention is super weird, IMO.

The attention the 'louder' cars get can get tiresome quickly, especially if it's in a bright color and especially as you get older (or more mature ).

I think this is a big part of what makes Porsche (particularly the 911) successful... It offers something for everyone... base car is still a performer and great fun, at a price within spitting distance (relatively, at this level) of, say, an M3... all the way up to the GT3RS that can go toe-to-toe for "look at me" with a red Ferrari or yellow Lambo... and they have something for any use-case in between.

I feel like outside of an RS with graphics and big wing, I've never felt like I had eyes on me in a 911...

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

First the Jag, and now this Audi concept, it really strikes me as design via "1990s Batman cartoon".

Originally Posted by chemgear

Yes, EXACTLY THAT is what I was thinking of!

[Erick Estrada]

Base model Porsches only exist on their websites people. Stop bringing them up like it's a real thing.

[woob]

Originally Posted by FLAME ENVY

That would be a fun car if you're able and willing to do some wrenching yourself. Pretty straightforward mechanically. I have always liked the clean lines of the 924, they are uber rare now in any guise. If you really want to spend the bank, Bruce Canepa has a basically new 1981 924 Carrera GT in Guards Red for sale, beautiful car!

Club Sport, no less. Let me check the couch cushions.

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

Five Aston Martin DB's parked in Kananaskis getting pics with Mount Kidd in the background. All different years. They are pretty nice. Drool.

[Acey]

To that end, what's a good road for a slightly sporty drive out toward the mountains? Had my Audi for almost a year now and haven't had the chance to really enjoy it at all outside of city limits.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Acey

To that end, what's a good road for a slightly sporty drive out toward the mountains? Had my Audi for almost a year now and haven't had the chance to really enjoy it at all outside of city limits.

The old Highway 1A route (ie from Cochrane towards Exshaw) is a good one if you're heading to Banff/Canmore. I always try to take that one there, and then 1 on the way back. It's narrow and does get popular with bikers and RVs though, so don't go too late.

Highway 40 (south, then turn west at Longview) is an amazing drive going west/north...especially now-ish when the leaves start turning. It's a longer drive, but real and spectacular.

[dammage79]

Highway 40 for sure. But if you want to play a bit with your AWD, you could always honor Quattro heritage and take the back way to Canmore via Peter Lougheed. It's gravel but it's a well maintained wide road.

Alternatively, highway 22 aka the cowboy trail is spirited. If it's not busy. Which it will be all the way down to Coleman.

A bigger loop for an all day trip is 1a to hwy 93 and out at Rocky Mountain house.

I personally have always wanted to do a sportscar AWD drive from Fortress to Canmore. At dusk when the traffic is negligible.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by BowRiverBruinsRule

Five Aston Martin DB's parked in Kananaskis getting pics with Mount Kidd in the background. All different years. They are pretty nice. Drool.

More specifically, a mix of V8 Vantages, V12 Vantage, Vanquish Mk2, and a DB11.

This was us on Saturday at the Fairmont Banff Springs during lunch, including a kick-ass classic Gen. 1 Vanquish which is the car that got me started on Aston Martin as a high-schooler. I'm third from the right:

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

More specifically, a mix of V8 Vantages, V12 Vantage, Vanquish Mk2, and a DB11.

This was us on Saturday at the Fairmont Banff Springs during lunch, including a kick-ass classic Gen. 1 Vanquish which is the car that got me started on Aston Martin as a high-schooler. I'm third from the right:

Thanks. I knew you would correct me.

[Table 5]

Beautiful cars!

Although looks like the Aston club drives are even more monotone than the Porsche ones. Can we at least get a British Racing Green in there?

I remember once going to Banff and randomly happening onto what was apparently a convention of Mercedes Gullwings. That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.