2025 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 140 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Roof-Daddy · 07-31-2025, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

Both Varland and Dominguez mostly pitched in the 6th and 7th innings on their old teams.

This is just not true.

Dominguez

Varland

Both were used in late innings a lot as you can see by the usage in the links above, and at the time of the trades both guys were listed on fangraphs as being in the 8th inning setup role for their teams.

Roof-Daddy · 07-31-2025, 04:56 PM

Varland is interesting because he pitches multiple innings quite a bit. He's also started a bunch of games in the last few years before being moved full time to the pen this year. Given he is under control for 5 more years maybe the Jays try him as a starter next season?

Wastedyouth · 07-31-2025, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

Both Varland and Dominguez mostly pitched in the 6th and 7th innings on their old teams.

Bieber has pitched 12 innings the last two seasons and in 2023 his K's were way down and his ERA was up. I am hopeful, but he is 3 years removed from looking like an ace. I think we need to temper expectations for him to be a 4/5 guy in the rotation.

Bieber, Dominguez and France are all gone after this season. Bieber wasn't planning on picking up his option with Cleveland, that's one of the reasons they were looking to move him.

I am still hopeful about this team this year, but I think the rest of the teams in the AL improved more than the Jays did.

Settle down Eeyore.

JTech780 · 07-31-2025, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

I do like the adds, really like the roll of the dice on Bieber but for me with the amount of really good closers/late inning guys available it's disappointing to see them not get one. Prices were high sure but I wouldn't want to go into the playoffs with Hoffman as my guy in that role.

Depth is nice sure but I think in the playoffs when the games get tight you want that guy, or better yet that 1-2 punch. Felt like they could get it and they didn't. Hope i'm wrong, but it feels like a missed opportunity.

This is more where I am at. Hoffman has been way too inconsistent and gets hit hard, Dominguez is wild and Varland doesn't miss bats. They all add to the depth of the pen so they brought the floor of the bullpen up, but they didn't really improve the ceiling.

Bieber is a lottery ticket, but if they were going to add a starter I would have preferred someone with less risk.

They gave up 3 arms out of their top 10 prospects, but I don't think they got that much better. Varland is the only one that will be here passed this season.

ben voyonsdonc · 07-31-2025, 05:02 PM

I bet that, this time next year, the Varland deal will be one that Jays fans will look back on as a huge win that went largely under the radar. I think he’ll be a core arm for this team.

JTech780 · 07-31-2025, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is just not true.

Dominguez

Varland

Both were used in late innings a lot as you can see by the usage in the links above, and at the time of the trades both guys were listed on fangraphs as being in the 8th inning setup role for their teams.

Only 9 innings of Dominguez's 43.2 innings this year came in the 8th. Only 11.2 innings of Varland's 49 innings came in the 8th.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...lb&season=2025

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...lb&season=2025

ben voyonsdonc · 07-31-2025, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

This is more where I am at. Hoffman has been way too inconsistent and gets hit hard, Dominguez is wild and Varland doesn't miss bats. They all add to the depth of the pen so they brought the floor of the bullpen up, but they didn't really improve the ceiling.

Bieber is a lottery ticket, but if they were going to add a starter I would have preferred someone with less risk.

They gave up 3 arms out of their top 10 prospects, but I don't think they got that much better. Varland is the only one that will be here passed this season.

If Bieber is a lottery ticket, what is a prospect? Prospects are nothing but ideas /projections of what a player could be.

We are legitimately in a World Series race, I’d trade every single prospect if it got us a championship. There are no pennants or rings for best farm system.

Bieber absolutely is a ceiling raiser. He has a low floor with his injuries but he’s a guy who could carry the team to a playoff win on his own. I don’t think he’s a goner after this season either. The Jays almost certainly will be working with his representation to see if they can get an extension done like they did with Berrios. They will have plenty of money coming off of the books over the next two seasons (Bassitt, Scherzer, and Gausman) and will be looking to spend it on a front end starter combined with promoting some younger guys like Tiedemann (god willing) and Yesavage.

Roof-Daddy · 07-31-2025, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

Only 9 innings of Dominguez's 43.2 innings this year came in the 8th. Only 11.2 innings of Varland's 49 innings came in the 8th.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...lb&season=2025

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...lb&season=2025

8 of Dominguez last 10 appearances have come in the 8th and 9th innings.

Anyways, splitting hairs here.

They have both been very good relievers this year and are pretty much what the jays needed. I was hoping for a guy like Bednar, but these guys should bolster the BP hopefully.

Roof-Daddy · 07-31-2025, 06:06 PM

Man I love the Bieber trade. It's the type of risk they needed to take for a huge upgrade.

The Jays did not need another mid rotation starter, they needed a top of the rotation guy but that would have cost an arm and a leg and there wasn't really any available who are currently in MLB already performing at that kind of level.

A calculated roll of the dice. Hopefully it pays off huge.

SuperMatt18 · 07-31-2025, 06:08 PM

Agree on the Bieber trade

It's a bit risky since they did give up a top100 prospect but based on his rehab starts his stuff isn't the issue, it's if he can stretch himself out to a starter and stay healthy now.

But I feel like if AA made this trade it would have been applauded as such a genius risk to take.

Varland seems like a smart add that helps now and in the future too, not just a guy that's gone at the end of the year.

Jiggy_12 · 07-31-2025, 06:34 PM

Been reading some of the threads on the twins subreddit and they seem pretty heartbroken about losing Varland. This could be a really huge win for the Jays

browna · 07-31-2025, 06:57 PM

No problem with a roll of the dice on Bieber. Dominguez and Varland are the middle to late arms needed desperately.

Rolling with Hoffman as your sole closer I guess you had no choice but that’s going to be pivotal, especially since not sure if Garcia is going to be able to get back and stay healthy.

France for a random power bat I get, but limited to 1B and DH like Vladdy and Santander.

As mentioned above, would’ve liked a veteran IF; sure, currently missing Jimenez but then you have have the other Jiminez, Schneider, and Clement rotating through there. Acceptable but just feels like you could’ve gotten someone else there off the bench for more trusty defense if nothing else.

puffnstuff · 07-31-2025, 07:05 PM

I do kinda wish they had kept one of Wagner or Roden...and instead had sent D Schneider. Since his arrival in MLB last year hes been kinda meh.
And both of them LHBs vs the righty

JTech780 · 07-31-2025, 08:14 PM

At the end of the day the Jays got better, but their rivals got betterer. I like the add of Dominguez. I am even fine with the add of Bieber, even if I don’t really agree with the gamble.

The Varland/France trade is puzzling, but whatever they are better today. Hopefully Pete Walker and the Jays staff can work some magic with Varland, on paper the stuff is there, but his underlying stats aren’t great. Hitters are hitting .271 with a 50% hard hit rate off of his 4 seam. His knuckle curve though is his best pitch and he gets lots of chase on it. I wonder if they look to develop his sinker a bit more.

JTech780 · 07-31-2025, 09:39 PM

A couple of other bullpen arms that were DFA’d today that could be interesting pick ups are Ryan Presley and Elvis Peguero. Presley has lost a few ticks on his fastball velocity and is on the last year of his deal that pays him $14m this year, so he would be less likely. Peguero is 28 with a live arm I could see him getting a look.

Bryan De La Cruz was DFA’d by the Yankees, he hit 21 HR last year for the Marlins, he has been in AAA most of this year. He strikes out a lot and is an awful fielder, but he has pop.

flamingred89 · 07-31-2025, 10:03 PM

Pressley is an interesting one. His WHIP and SO/9 are way down but some of his other metrics are ok. He might be a good candidate for a change of scenery. Or he's just cooked because he's had a long career and won some rings already.

Andrew · 07-31-2025, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

This is more where I am at. Hoffman has been way too inconsistent and gets hit hard, Dominguez is wild and Varland doesn't miss bats. They all add to the depth of the pen so they brought the floor of the bullpen up, but they didn't really improve the ceiling.

Bieber is a lottery ticket, but if they were going to add a starter I would have preferred someone with less risk.

They gave up 3 arms out of their top 10 prospects, but I don't think they got that much better. Varland is the only one that will be here passed this season.

You forgot rogers is owner...we had our doubt rogers could sign guerrero got it done.

Bieber could sign? I put it at 50/50. Dominguez better if they want to

Futher: to acquire the potential of Bieber long term will cost yesavage or nimalla and Stephen's plus.. risk and term lower investment. If he pans out he pans out. Also money factor of rogers...

Don't like the price paid for varland. Rojas and roden are top performers in minors for jays system.

That said. Rojas had shoulder injury I think maybe jays are concerned long term with delivery.

Also in past most pitchers traded by Atkins have bombed... the know your system comment.

We have tones of pitching in minors. Got to pay to acquire.

Watts brown for Dominguez... velocity is very expensive this deadline... again high price

Every body mentions are guys having years... king stanifer. But we have barriera tiedeman maroudis slowly coming back from tj. Tj is not much risk

bizaro86 · 07-31-2025, 10:49 PM

I like the Bieber deal. A prospect is a dice roll, and a guy coming off injury is a dice roll. Both could be nothing, both could have big upside. I'd rather have the potential upside this year when the Jays are legit contenders and the AL path is fairly open.

bizaro86 · 08-01-2025, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingred89

France obviously a salary dump for the Twins but also likely means Santander is not going to play this season. Provides that extra pop.

France is on an expiring $1 million dollar contract, and he was on the roster so they'll have to replace him. Minimum MLB salary is $760k and there's 2 months left. At max They're saving like 100k max on this.

JTech780 · 08-01-2025, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizaro86

France is on an expiring $1 million dollar contract, and he was on the roster so they'll have to replace him. Minimum MLB salary is $760k and there's 2 months left. At max They're saving like 100k max on this.

Apparently the Twins are $440m in debt so every $100k they can save is important.