The Tariff Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Perfect, so why would anyone want to trade with the US? As far as I can tell they don't have anything you can't trade with someone else with. Just shut them out completely.

Well, it is the world’s largest economy. And realistically, despite all the bluster, they will always be our largest trading partner. It shouldn’t even be close, and it’s really not up for discussion.

Don’t get me wrong, I am entirely supportive of Canada and think we should do everything we can to get the best deal possible with the US. But we’re not cutting them off from anything.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well, it is the world’s largest economy.

Not for long. Not when you shun the world like they are.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

If you read through project 2025 they objected to having the most preferred nation Tarrif rules and wanted to end that practice and negotiate Tarrifs rates nation by nation as to avoid dumping issues. It’s actually not terrible policy as written in project 2025.

Then Trump has just shat all over it.

Tariffs themselves aren't necessarily good or bad and there are legitimate reasons why a country may need to use them in certain circumstances. Even Bernie Sanders used to swear up and down about implementing tariffs.

It's clear Trump doesn't know how tariffs actually work though and may only vaguely understand the principle. For him, it's just about getting attention and enticing other leaders to suck up to him, which seemed to work on Sheinbaum and Starmer for example.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Tariffs themselves aren't necessarily good or bad and there are legitimate reasons why a country may need to use them in certain circumstances. Even Bernie Sanders used to swear up and down about implementing tariffs.

It's clear Trump doesn't know how tariffs actually work though and may only vaguely understand the principle. For him, it's just about getting attention and enticing other leaders to suck up to him, which seemed to work on Sheinbaum and Starmer for example.

I think that is even highly optimistic. I'm more inclined to think he had a 'word of the day' calendar and got to 'tariffs' and never flipped the page.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well, it is the world’s largest economy. And realistically, despite all the bluster, they will always be our largest trading partner. It shouldn’t even be close, and it’s really not up for discussion.

Don’t get me wrong, I am entirely supportive of Canada and think we should do everything we can to get the best deal possible with the US. But we’re not cutting them off from anything.

It doesn't have to be though. Why does the US still have to be our largest trading partner? Not really up for discussion sounds like you support what Trump is doing.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It doesn't have to be though. Why does the US still have to be our largest trading partner? Not really up for discussion sounds like you support what Trump is doing.

Geography and other options geographic location. The dig at the end is dumb and unnecessary.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It doesn't have to be though. Why does the US still have to be our largest trading partner? Not really up for discussion sounds like you support what Trump is doing.

Proximaty is the most basic determinant of trade because it reduces the cost of transport, Canadian goods will always cost more in Europe than in the US because they don't have to be sent to a Port, put on a boat, sailed to Rotterdam, taken off the boat then shipped to Madrid or the like, if Canada 'did a Brexit' and moved away from trade with the US it would be possible but it would make us and the US much much poorer and would take 40 or 50 years to transition

[direwolf]

Because we share a border and our economies are so intertwined, I think we’ll always have to trade with the U.S. in some capacity. The goal moving forward is to diversify and become much less dependent on them, which is what Canada has already been working towards ever since this tariff insanity started. By strengthening existing ties with allies and making new deals with other like-minded countries, I believe we can eventually get there. But it’s gonna take a lot of hard work and ingenuity. Thankfully we have some very smart people running the show right now, which gives me hope.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Proximaty is the most basic determinant of trade because it reduces the cost of transport, Canadian goods will always cost more in Europe than in the US because they don't have to be sent to a Port, put on a boat, sailed to Rotterdam, taken off the boat then shipped to Madrid or the like, if Canada 'did a Brexit' and moved away from trade with the US it would be possible but it would make us and the US much much poorer and would take 40 or 50 years to transition

It definitely is a plus that we share a land border that facilitates easy trade, but we should have never made ourselves so reliant on it. We traded resilience and even some economic autonomy for something because it was easy. All the criticisms and negative outcomes at the time that NAFTA was first being discussed are coming to fruition.

Look at a country like Australia that shares no land border with anyone. Everything either enters or leaves through a port, and they seem to do fine. Being connected by land to the U.S. should have always been treated as a bonus and something nice to have, but not something to tie our horses to. All those politicians and industry tycoons pushing for it in the 1980s and early 90s sold out future generations so they could have an immediate gain even though everyone knew this could or eventually would happen. If you give up a little economic autonomy to the U.S., of course it was only a matter of time until someone would come along to exploit that. If it takes 40-50 years to diversify and adjust, then better get started as soon as possible.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's definitely is a plus that we share a land border that facilitates easy trade, but we should have never made ourselves so reliant on it. We traded resilience and even some economic autonomy for something because it was easy. All the criticisms and negative outcomes at the time that NAFTA was first being discussed are coming to fruition.

This is a completely absurd line of thinking.

Instead of using a single mode of transportation where a company could get their product to market in a number of hours or days at worst, you are expecting a fledgling business to carry the cost of setting up a multi-modal transport system involving ships, trains and trucks?!!?!

Jesus man. Give your head a damn shake.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's definitely is a plus that we share a land border that facilitates easy trade, but we should have never made ourselves so reliant on it. We traded resilience and even some economic autonomy for something because it was easy. All the criticisms and negative outcomes at the time that NAFTA was first being discussed are coming to fruition.

Look at a country like Australia that shares no land border with anyone. Everything either enters or leaves through a port, and they seem to do fine. Being connected by land to the U.S. should have always been treated as a bonus and something nice to have, but not something to tie our horses to. All those politicians and industry tycoons pushing for it in the 1980s and early 90s sold out future generations so they could have an immediate gain even though everyone knew this could or eventually would happen. If you give up a little economic autonomy to the U.S., of course it was only a matter of time until someone would come along to exploit that. If it takes 40-50 years to diversify and adjust, then better get started as soon as possible.

While I wouldn't argue that Canada should attempt to promote trade everywhere if you take Australia as an example, it's top trading partners are all the major economies closest to it, China Japan and India, Asia makes up about 60% of its imports and 75% of it's exports, proximity is always king when it comes to trade due to not just price but speed and ease of support due to time difference, it is easier for me to order from the US than the UK because by the time I have woken up at 8am everyone in London is going home

[Locke]

We've burnt the White House down before, we can do it again.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

While I wouldn't argue that Canada should attempt to promote trade everywhere if you take Australia as an example, it's top trading partners are all the major economies closest to it, China Japan and India, Asia makes up about 60% of its imports and 75% of it's exports, proximity is always king when it comes to trade due to not just price but speed and ease of support due to time difference, it is easier for me to order from the US than the UK because by the time I have woken up at 8am everyone in London is going home

Proximity of course matters, but using Australia as an example, it's not like they are close to their major trading partners either. For example, the straight line distance in nautical miles from Australia's major ports to the closest Chinese major port is roughly 4,500. From Vancouver to Shanghai, it's roughly 5,000. And that is in a straight line. It's a much windier path between Australia and China, Japan, and South Korea so it's probably pretty much the same. They make it work because they have to and I don't see any reason why Canada couldn't make it work.

I am definitely not saying that Canada should not trade at all with the U.S., or that the U.S. shouldn't be looked at as the main trading partner. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be so lopsided to the point that we're at their mercy and they have the ability to destroy our economy. Are there any other major industrialized countries that have roughly 65% of their trade with just one market?

[GGG]

Are you willing to subsidize east / west transport to do it?

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Locke

We've burnt the White House down before, we can do it again.

This time, with everyone still in it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

Are you willing to subsidize east / west transport to do it?

Yeah, I don't think it's even a choice. Both for facilitating more interprovincial and foreign trade. It's exactly what John Turner warned about back when the Conservatives were pushing for NAFTA.

I truly believe Canada's sovereignty is at stake, so you either invest in the necessary infrastructure to strengthen our autonomy, or we will see slow decline in our ability to survive as a fully independent country. This is a cross roads where Canada needs to decide whether it wants to be fully self-determined or satellite of a country that threatens us.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

Are you willing to subsidize east / west transport to do it?

It would be cool to build our own version of the US interstate, but it would be prohibitively expensive.