Does the NHL have a Canadian success problem?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

The NFL seem to have done it. All 32 teams seem to have a decent chance at winning, and they can turn their fortunes around with a decent draft or two. The Flames have sucked for years now, and we're not in any danger of getting better anytime soon with guys on big contracts like Huberdeau mailing it in year after year.

getting rid of guaranteed contracts for majority of players is huge for the NFL

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Buff

I don't think there is much of a problem since the lockout of 2005. Before that there was uneven playing grounds where only one Canadian team had a chance of building a competitive team. Now they all can host a competitive team if they have competent management/ownership.

The odds are low due to amount of teams in the league. 32 teams in the league and only 7 of them are Canadian. Should the state of New York be worried about winning only one cup in 39 years? The Canadian teams have won 7 in that time! What's the issue?

Winning and "not winning" is not tied to where the team is located.

I notice you used 39 years to include the Oilers/Calagry/Montreal winners.

I think it's more relevant to look at the cap era, as the time before UFA, NTC, NMC, etc. is not relevant to today's challenges.

In the last 33 years, 0 Canadian teams, 3 NY teams.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Well you may think it's a bad take but the proof is in the numbers. Canadian teams just don't win. They don't win cups, they don't win series to the same degree. When they have gone to the cup finals in recent memory (04, 06,07,11,21,24,25) they have lost. Some of those teams were underdogs, some favorite and I may have missed one.

American teams seem to be able to actually turn it around and be really competitive quickly. This is a Flames form and most of us are Flames fans but are the Flames really a team that we can look forward to the next 10 years as being an elite club? In all honesty?

Other fans are laughing at Leon, McDavid, Hughs, Mathews and other elite players in Canada leaving for greener pastures. Would that hypothetically happen in other sports to Canada on a never ending basis in a competitive league? European soccer stars fleeing Paris, Milan, London and Munich for the chance to win in Calgary and Winnipeg? Imagine if American NFL teams just couldn't break through because Regina hoarded all the talent and Calgary/Edmonton were out bidding NY and Miami?

I don't see any legit NHL fan who can sit here and say 32+ years of losing non stop in a balanced system isn't some sort of concern. It's clear Canada can not compete in the current system and nobody in any team has been able to figure it out cause they would need to drastically outperform by a different level in order for that to happen.

Correlation =/= causation is a phrase that I have to assume you’re totally unfamiliar based on virtually every post you’ve ever written, but especially this one.

Otherwise, show your work. And don’t just show that it’s a Canadian problem, show that it’s not any other problem.

Because 3/4 of what you just wrote is just factually incorrect. So I’m guessing this wasn’t the result of deep, unconventional thinking, but more so just something that crossed your mind and received no external validation at all. Happy to be wrong though, interested to read you put a proper case together for it.

[Icantwhisper]

Really the only issue effecting it is that 6 of the Canadian teams are in 2 divisions.
Even if all seven made the playoffs, there would be all Canadian match ups in the first round and an almost zero chance of an all Canadian final 4.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Oh man, I'm going to do my best not to come off like a prick here. 7/32 teams are Canadian. That's a little shy of 22%, not 20%. Two teams a year make the finals, not one. So by that measure, a Canadian team should be making the finals seven out of sixteen seasons. That's 43.75%. Going back sixteen seasons, a Canadian team has made the finals four times, which is only 4/32 or 12.5%. If you go back a couple of more years, a Canadian team were finalists only 4 out of 36, for 11%.

By any measure since 1993, Canadian teams suck. We just can't compete with America. Are there seven other teams since 1993 that haven't won a cup? Including relocation? It is one of the most unbelievable stats in all of sports.

In the time frame there have been 1 Canadian team added and 2 expansion teams, so I did a little rounding.

There's one Cup to win. In the last 25 years, A Canadian team has had the opportunity to win 28% of the time. And in the timeframe, the only Canadian team to not have. SCF berth is the Jets (who didn't exist for 10 of those seasons). I really don't think there can be any complaints. If you picked any random group of 7 teams the same time-frame, numbers are likely worse than that.

Also, I genuinely don't care if a Canadian team wins or not, if it's not the Flames. They are just other teams in other cities, why do people care if a trophy crosses the border to a city they've never even been to and hate on the majority of the time?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Same with Treliving failing to lock up Gaudreau and Tkachuk long term sooner, and also butchering Bennett's development.

He had no issues throwing money bags at UFA's but Treliving really liked to nickel and dime his own players. At a time when teams were locking up their own young players long term, he was lowballing Johnny and all to willing to gamble on Tkachuk not blowing up on his bridge deal. Who knows where the Flames are today if they have a better GM than Treliving handling those players?

[TheIronMaiden]

BT was always stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Correlation =/= causation is a phrase that I have to assume you’re totally unfamiliar based on virtually every post you’ve ever written, but especially this one.

Otherwise, show your work. And don’t just show that it’s a Canadian problem, show that it’s not any other problem.

Because 3/4 of what you just wrote is just factually incorrect. So I’m guessing this wasn’t the result of deep, unconventional thinking, but more so just something that crossed your mind and received no external validation at all. Happy to be wrong though, interested to read you put a proper case together for it.

Too long to look into every little detail for you when you actually know the truth. What are you trying to say now? Canadian teams have had the advantages over the last 32 years? They have out performed their US peers in terms of regular season wins, playoff series wins and cups?

You can move your little scenario all you want but the truth is in the results. Probability and confidence a Canadian team wins in the next 5 years is low. I don't see Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa. Winnipeg is consistent, Montreal seems to be on a good track. Edmonton depends on a single factor.

Perhaps 32 year drought isn't a long enough for your mind, but how many more years would it take for it to be considered a concern from a competitive ability?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Too long to look into every little detail for you when you actually know the truth. What are you trying to say now? Canadian teams have had the advantages over the last 32 years? They have out performed their US peers in terms of regular season wins, playoff series wins and cups?

You can move your little scenario all you want but the truth is in the results. Probability and confidence a Canadian team wins in the next 5 years is low. I don't see Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa. Winnipeg is consistent, Montreal seems to be on a good track. Edmonton depends on a single factor.

Perhaps 32 year drought isn't a long enough for your mind, but how many more years would it take for it to be considered a concern from a competitive ability?

lol that’s what I thought.

[dwd5150]

Can we please, please, please stop buying into this 'Canada's Game' 'Bring The Cup Home' political-business marketing strategy that Rogers Communications, Canadian NHL franchises, Canadian advertisers, legacy & online influencer-pundits, and grubby politicians at all levels in Canada have been milking for decades?

As a Flames fan, I'm relieved the Oilers did not win. As a hockey fan, I am glad the best team, Florida, won. I couldn't give a rats ass (there are none to be had in Alberta) if any team other than the Flames in Canada EVER won a Cup again!

Canadians need to grow up and realize that their beloved hockey is a world game and a business. It's not Canada's game. Not for a long , long time.

That includes the recent 4 Nations tournament, by the way, though the players certainly bought into the nationalist pride and delivered a spectacle that surprised even the NHL's marketing gurus. I enjoyed it myself, and was thrilled when Canada won. Remember though, it could have easily gone to the USA if not for our goalie. Would we feel worse as a nation of we had lost that tournament? If we actually are a grown-up, mature country (something I often doubt based on available evidence) then a nationalist marketing strategy disguised as a hockey tournament should not cause us all to lose our collective minds and national pride if our team happens to lose. The 4 Nations tournament was sold as a best on best tournament based on nationalities - except that major nations of the hockey world we're not invited because of the politics of war. So it wasn't even best on best. It was still fun, because the level of play was elite, and of course we all cheered for the Canadians, but speaking for myself I'd not have lost a wisp of national pride had our team lost.

For the millionth time...the NHL is a quite lucrative business. The teams are business franchises owned by billionaires and the game is played by millionaire players from around the hockey world on each team. Where the team happens to be based in North America DOES NOT MATTER! Cheer for your team of mercenaries. I cheer for the Flames, and not because they are based in Canada.

Canadians need to reject the social-political agitation propaganda peddled by Rogers, the NHL's Canadian teams, its Canadian advertisers, self-interested Canadian legacy and online media pundits, and opportunistic politicians. Cheer for your NHL team, and against other NHL teams, like an adult that is smart enough to recognize that their sense of national pride should not be wrapped up in the NHL team being geographically located in Canada.

[getbak]

6 straight Stanley Cup Finals have featured a team from the State of Florida. Does the NHL Eastern Conference have a Florida problem?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Coach

In the time frame there have been 1 Canadian team added and 2 expansion teams, so I did a little rounding.

There's one Cup to win. In the last 25 years, A Canadian team has had the opportunity to win 28% of the time. And in the timeframe, the only Canadian team to not have. SCF berth is the Jets (who didn't exist for 10 of those seasons). I really don't think there can be any complaints. If you picked any random group of 7 teams the same time-frame, numbers are likely worse than that.

Also, I genuinely don't care if a Canadian team wins or not, if it's not the Flames. They are just other teams in other cities, why do people care if a trophy crosses the border to a city they've never even been to and hate on the majority of the time?

This is still have the rate you’d expect given random chance. 2/32 teams make the finals. This suggests they should be represented 43% of the time rather than 28%. So that’s a significant under performance.