Israel declares war on Hamas

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Hitler being more efficient than Netanyahu sure is an interesting angle.

Hitler was trying to destroy all European Jews. Netanyahu isn't trying to destroy Palestinian Arabs. He has 2 millions of them living in his very own country.

Which kind of kills all genocide allegations. There were many Jews who were Germany citizens and they were murdered during Holocaust. Then Hitler invaded other nations and killed Jews there too. That's genocide.

Israel, on the other hand, is not murdering or in any other way going after Palestinian Arabs that are Israeli citizens. All the killings happen to be in Gaza, which is a legitimate war zone and the war was started by Gaza. Outside of that war zone, no killing of Palestinian Arabs is happening.

[Barnet Flame]

Just go away you heartless monster.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Just go away you heartless monster.

So you could continue to post falsehoods? Nope. And I'm not heartless at all. I'm all for the world without wars, rather than for a world where it's ok to wage a war as long, as you do it by some "rules". I just have no rose-colored glasses on what a war is. It is hell. It should stop. Hostages should be released.

[Barnet Flame]

Name one falsehood I’ve posted, or retract what you’ve just said.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

At this point, the Israeli regime is exactly that - by word and deed. There is no sugar coating it.

This, for example.

And I'm not even a Netanyahu supporter. I'm against him.

Unless you want to call Ukrainian regime a terrorist organization because of things like this:

https://kyivindependent.com/4-killed...ficials-claim/

And don't get me started on what Russians are doing either.

It's called "war". It's ugly enough as it is. The closest historical comparison of what is happening is probably the bombings of Japan (not nukes, there was an intensive campaign prior to that). Check out, there are some HORRIBLE pictures in this link which rivals those from Gaza:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan.

Both terrorism and genocide are different things entirely.

[Barnet Flame]

The planning and scale of the cruelty, its consistency and the application of it, support the point made. It is state terrorism against an entire people.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Just go away you heartless monster.

I was gonna say "#### off, ghoul" but yours was kinder.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Hitler was trying to destroy all European Jews. Netanyahu isn't trying to destroy Palestinian Arabs. He has 2 millions of them living in his very own country.

Which kind of kills all genocide allegations. There were many Jews who were Germany citizens and they were murdered during Holocaust. Then Hitler invaded other nations and killed Jews there too. That's genocide.

Israel, on the other hand, is not murdering or in any other way going after Palestinian Arabs that are Israeli citizens. All the killings happen to be in Gaza, which is a legitimate war zone and the war was started by Gaza. Outside of that war zone, no killing of Palestinian Arabs is happening.

Yet.

Your rationalizations are bat#### crazy, things only someone raised in Russia under Putin could manage to spew out with a straight face. Netanyahu didn't kill these specific people, so he can't possible be for killing all the other ones who are sitting on the land he wants for sea-front resorts and, also the West Bank where he is clearly killing people sitting on land he wants. Logic!

Do they have psychotherapy covered in Israel? You should probably go talk to someone about your lack of ability to have humanity before your children get poisoned with the same bile Putin poisoned your mind with. It's not good.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Israel, on the other hand, is not murdering or in any other way going after Palestinian Arabs that are Israeli citizens. All the killings happen to be in Gaza, which is a legitimate war zone and the war was started by Gaza. Outside of that war zone, no killing of Palestinian Arabs is happening.

Bold lie, considering they’ve murdered and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinians in the West Bank.

The Pro-Putin, Pro-Far Right Israeli government propaganda machine marches on I guess. Thank goodness he’s here to stop the “spread of falsehoods” by spreading his own.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Pointman

This, for example.

And I'm not even a Netanyahu supporter. I'm against him.

Unless you want to call Ukrainian regime a terrorist organization because of things like this:

https://kyivindependent.com/4-killed...ficials-claim/

And don't get me started on what Russians are doing either.

It's called "war". It's ugly enough as it is. The closest historical comparison of what is happening is probably the bombings of Japan (not nukes, there was an intensive campaign prior to that). Check out, there are some HORRIBLE pictures in this link which rivals those from Gaza:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan.

Both terrorism and genocide are different things entirely.

Sorry, this is not war. If they invaded Iran, which would likely be dealing with the root cause of the problem, that would be a war. You could almost argue it started out as war when Hamas attacked civilians in Israel, but I would argue that was an act of terrorism. Yes, I know that Hamas is the official government of Gaza, but let's be honest, they are the government in Gaza like ISIS was the government in parts of Iraq and Syria.

This is not war. This is a bunch of war-hawks in the Israeli government, representing a bunch of religious fanatics in the West Bank and elsewhere that no longer want to live in fear from some of their neighbours and decided that they would solve the problem, at least in Gaza, once and for all regardless of how many innocents died as a result. From a political standpoint it also helps to strengthen Bibi's previously tenuous grip on power and distract from his scandals. Hamas is not, and never was, an existential threat to the state of Israel like Germany was to England or Japan was during WWII. They were and are a threat as terrorists though. If Israel really wants peace and security they need to get rid of Netanyahu, eject the settlers from the West Bank, stop catering to the ultra-religious nut-jobs and deal with Iran (preferably in a non-violent way).

[activeStick]

Meanwhile, France and UK will abandon their previous plans to recognize Palestine as a state because this is what these countries always do when they have to decide between going with what's right or going with what their gang of 7 wants them to do.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/u...ate-conference

Ireland, Spain and Norway recognised a Palestinian state last year, and there has been an increasing consensus that recognition should come unilaterally as a means of pressuring Israel to change tack.

Last week, Israeli diplomat Alon Pinkas#told Middle East Eye#that France's push to recognise Palestine was "serious and has the backing of most of the European Union and Saudi Arabia”.

However, both the UK and France have faced pressure from the US over the plans, while Israel has#said#it would expand its settlements in the occupied West Bank in response.

Israeli Defence Minister Israel Katz said plans to#build a further 22 settlements in the occupied territory#were "a strategic move that prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state".

Most of the world already recognizes Palestine with the exception of a few shameful ones, including the G7 (yup, Canada refuses to also) and others who will go with whatever the west tells them to do (Australia, South Korea, etc).

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Please find the quote that the plan is to "cleanse" Gaza. And direct quote, not from propaganda site. The part, that they only allow aid for not to lose international support is true.

What do you deem as propaganda? Most of the Weat have gone along with Pro-Israel sentiments for centuries. But anyways, here’s your quote from Smotrich:

“Gaza will be entirely destroyed, civilians will be sent to... the south to a humanitarian zone without Hamas or terrorism, and from there they will start to leave in great numbers to third countries”

That is cleansing.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sorry, this is not war. If they invaded Iran, which would likely be dealing with the root cause of the problem, that would be a war. You could almost argue it started out as war when Hamas attacked civilians in Israel, but I would argue that was an act of terrorism. Yes, I know that Hamas is the official government of Gaza, but let's be honest, they are the government in Gaza like ISIS was the government in parts of Iraq and Syria.

This is not war. This is a bunch of war-hawks in the Israeli government, representing a bunch of religious fanatics in the West Bank and elsewhere that no longer want to live in fear from some of their neighbours and decided that they would solve the problem, at least in Gaza, once and for all regardless of how many innocents died as a result. From a political standpoint it also helps to strengthen Bibi's previously tenuous grip on power and distract from his scandals. Hamas is not, and never was, an existential threat to the state of Israel like Germany was to England or Japan was during WWII. They were and are a threat as terrorists though. If Israel really wants peace and security they need to get rid of Netanyahu, eject the settlers from the West Bank, stop catering to the ultra-religious nut-jobs and deal with Iran (preferably in a non-violent way).

Like they ejected settlers from Gaza in 2005? So, Hamas immediately came to power, murdering Palestinian authorities? We know how it ended. Settlers, even though they do go over the line at times, are the only way to keep things in check. Leaving Palestinians to their own devices, like in Gaza, failed. Using UN forces with a mandate to keep Hezbollah away from Israel border also failed.

Iran has ability to build proxy armies, that are stronger than official armies. They build parallel states, like in Lebanon/Hezbollah, grab large parts of a state, like Yemen/Housithis, or expel authorities outright (Palestinian Authorities/Hamas in Gaza). The only place where Iran failed is West Bank and it was only because of settlers and very tough, some times over the line policy by Israel. Kids gloves don't work on them.

Speaking at the United Nations General Assembly after the withdrawal, Sharon stated that “the end of Israeli control over and responsibility for the Gaza Strip allows the Palestinians, if they so wish, to develop their economy and build a peace-seeking society, which is developed, free, law-abiding, and transparent and which adheres to democratic principles.” In 2006 the PA held the second set of parliamentary elections in its history, and Hamas won the majority of seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC). The inclusion of Hamas in the coalition government resulted in international sanctions. A power struggle between the PA’s main factions ensued and became increasingly violent, resulting in a Fatah-led PA in the West Bank and the takeover of the Gaza Strip by Hamas. Concerned over the hostility of Hamas toward Israel, in 2007 the Israeli government with the help of Egypt implemented a blockade of the territory, limiting both imports and exports as well as movement into and out of the Gaza Strip

It should be noted that "blockade", according to UN, included letting in 500 trucks of aid every day. UN should educate themselves on how a real blockade looks like:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad

On whether Hamas is an existential threat to Israel. Hamas is a part of an Iran proxy network, who together absolutely do represent an existential threat to Israel. It is a billions dollars network led by 90 millions population, almost-nuclear country, with officially stated goal to destroy Israel.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

What do you deem as propaganda? Most of the Weat have gone along with Pro-Israel sentiments for centuries. But anyways, here’s your quote from Smotrich:

“Gaza will be entirely destroyed, civilians will be sent to... the south to a humanitarian zone without Hamas or terrorism, and from there they will start to leave in great numbers to third countries”

That is cleansing.

This quote is legit and not a propaganda site. That being said, he was explaining Trump's relocation plan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dona...Strip_proposal

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Meanwhile, France and UK will abandon their previous plans to recognize Palestine as a state because this is what these countries always do when they have to decide between going with what's right or going with what their gang of 7 wants them to do.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/u...ate-conference



Most of the world already recognizes Palestine with the exception of a few shameful ones, including the G7 (yup, Canada refuses to also) and others who will go with whatever the west tells them to do (Australia, South Korea, etc).

The reason why Israel, as well as G7, reject Palestinian state, is the fear that Palestine state will become another Lebanon/Yemen/Syria. It will become a State, that barely exist as a real state, but rather as a facade for terrorist organizations that would be running their own de-facto states. If Palestinians were be able to build a Switzerland in Gaza, Israel would have welcomed it.

And, for historical context, Gaza was occupied by Egypt and West Bank was occupied by Jordan for 20+ years. Neither of those Arabic Muslim countries bothered to give Palestinians a state.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Israel, on the other hand, is not murdering or in any other way going after Palestinian Arabs that are Israeli citizens. All the killings happen to be in Gaza, which is a legitimate war zone and the war was started by Gaza. Outside of that war zone, no killing of Palestinian Arabs is happening.

Pepsi already jumped on it but if anyone needed any more proof of what a complete propagandist bull#### artist Pointman is (and always has been) the paragraph above sums it up.

What a disgusting little creature you are.

https://www.unicef.org/press-release...st-nine-months

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ied-west-bank/

https://www.savethechildren.net/news...last-two-years

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2ny546m7go

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/...hnic-cleansing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nk-report-says

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nk-2024-06-04/

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...st-year-record

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ecedented-rate

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/w...nian-militants

How many posters of Daniella Weiss do you have on your wall?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Pepsi already jumped on it but if anyone needed any more proof of what a complete propagandist bull#### artist Pointman is (and always has been) the paragraph above sums it up.

What a disgusting little creature you are.

https://www.unicef.org/press-release...st-nine-months

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...ied-west-bank/

https://www.savethechildren.net/news...last-two-years

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2ny546m7go

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/...hnic-cleansing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nk-report-says

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nk-2024-06-04/

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...st-year-record

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ecedented-rate

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/w...nian-militants

How many posters of Daniella Weiss do you have on your wall?

None of those links report murders of Palestinian Arabs in Israel. The point was that Israel doesn't murder Palestinian Arabs in Israel, as in contrast with Germany mass murdering Jews in Germany.

What your links are reporting is a Israel - Hamas war in West Bank, as an outspill of main war in Gaza. Here i found an Al Jazeera link confirming that Hamas does have a military wing in West Bank.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/...pied-west-bank

Btw, I'm not a propaganda artist. There's nothing to gain from propaganding in the off topic section of a hockey forum in Calgary. If my goal was to promote propaganda, I would have gone to some more public places. Posters on the wall? Are you a teenager?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Claiming that this isn’t a genocide because Israel could be killing way more Palestinians if it wanted to is one of the wildest, most disgusting takes I think I’ve ever seen posted.

I’m not sure why you all keep engaging with someone who is clearly a hateful person and has no hope of actually trying to view this tragedy through an objective lens.

He's been this way for years. Nothing will change. He is unfortunately an indoctrinated fool and I hate that because he's otherwise quite intelligent. I have friends down the same stupid rabbit holes of misinformation and it's really sad how hateful and misinformed they become without understanding it. I will give him the fact that he was born into the propaganda where my friends fell into it in stupider ways here in the West.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

The point was that Israel doesn't murder Palestinian Arabs in Israel, as in contrast with Germany mass murdering Jews in Germany.

Lie:

Originally Posted by Pointman

All the killings happen to be in Gaza, which is a legitimate war zone and the war was started by Gaza. Outside of that war zone, no killing of Palestinian Arabs is happening.

Falsehoods and misinformation followed by deflection when caught in the lie. Gross, but typical of far right Putin apologists.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Lie:



Falsehoods and misinformation followed by deflection when caught in the lie. Gross, but typical of far right Putin apologists.

Lie?

If you read the whole post, the very first one on this page, it implies that Israel is not murdering its own citizens, even though they are ethnically Arabs. Which, in the opinion of an author of the post, denies the accusations of Israel doing ethnic cleansing. Even if one assumes that Israel wants to wipe out Gazans, it doesn't seem to do much with ethnicity, as 2 millions of people with the same ethnicity live peacefully in Israel.

What you did was nitpicked words "outside of that war zone", which related to Gaza war, and argued that some of the killings happen in West Bank. Although they are still related to Gaza war and, even if you believe the numbers from links above, amount to about 1% of overall deaths caused by the war. And those dead are not Israeli citizens anyway, which was actually the point. So you kind of proved that a pretty minor sideway wording was not 100% correct, but rather 99% correct and could be worded a bit better to account for 1% of deaths, that happen in West Bank, which is outside of Gaza but inside the Gazan war zone nonetheless, as Hamas is there too. Then you call it "Lies. Misinformation. Falsehoods". Still failing to address the elephant in the room, which is 2 millions of Arabs living in Israel as Israeli citizens.


Regarding being Putin's apologist, I've been saying that Putin was more skilled and mentally capable president, than whatever American's "democracy" produced. I stand by that. He has declined in recent years, but not to Biden level and probably not to Trump 2.0 level. I strongly oppose Russian invasion of Ukraine, as I have been from the start.

Modern USA is far from democracy (albeit not as far, as Russia, but it is a low bar) and their leaders have been, err, not particularly bright, for some time now. Stating this does not make me Putin supporter in any way, as I don't support what he's doing.