Israel declares war on Hamas

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Israel literally has a blank check from the most powerful nation in the world. The world literally gave them a country by taking that land away from another group of people.

Slight oversimplification of what happened. But also you're missing the part where Hitler merked 6 million Jews while the whole world sat by and watched.

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I also see that you continue to ignore my comments about the West Bank. Must be a lot more simple to construct your point when you ignore that.

Similar to what you've said about how everyone already agrees Hamas is bad, I and many others have repeatedly said that I think what's happening in the West Bank is wrong. But you keep bringing it up as some sort of gotcha thing.

[ResAlien]

"The whole world sat by and watched"? Were they not in the midst of a world war? Are we just making stuff up for fun now? Are all of these questions rhetorical?

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Slight oversimplification of what happened. But also you're missing the part where Hitler merked 6 million Jews while the whole world sat by and watched.

So you didn't read my previous post.

Similar to what you've said about how everyone already agrees Hamas is bad, I and many others have repeatedly said that I think what's happening in the West Bank is wrong. But you keep bringing it up as some sort of gotcha thing.

It's not a gotcha when it's literally evidence to support the point that we're making. I'm not trying to trick you into anything. I'm trying to show you how your logic makes no sense.

[Fl4me5]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Nobody gives a #### about them? Seriously?

Israel literally has a blank check from the most powerful nation in the world. The world literally gave them a country by taking that land away from another group of people. Billions and billions in aid. By far the most advanced military in the region and one of the best intelligence agencies in the world built from that aid. And you're saying nobody gives a #### about Israel?

Israel has gotten more grace and latitude than any other country would be getting. Just because they're finally being held accountable for their actions, doesn't mean nobody gives a #### about them.

I also see that you continue to ignore my comments about the West Bank. Must be a lot more simple to construct your point when you ignore that.

Dude, your last two posts literally contradicted each other. You claim the entire world is against Israel except the US - a relationship that is actually currently on thin ice as well.


And again, I'm not here to discuss the history of the conflict and the many entanglements. It's very messy and both sides are wrong in their own ways.

All I'm saying is this is what we have gotten out of the war so far:
- Thousands of innocent dead
- Highest levels of anti-Semitism in history (and an increase in islamophobia as well)
- Chaos and anarchy in our streets
- No closer to any resolution or peace

What we're doing is not helping Palestinians, Israelis, or the average Joe in Canada. In fact its moving us further away.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

Dude, your last two posts literally contradicted each other. You claim the entire world is against Israel except the US - a relationship that is actually currently on thin ice as well.


And again, I'm not here to discuss the history of the conflict and the many entanglements. It's very messy and both sides are wrong in their own ways.

All I'm saying is this is what we have gotten out of the war so far:
- Thousands of innocent dead
- Highest levels of anti-Semitism in history (and an increase in islamophobia as well)
- Chaos and anarchy in our streets
- No closer to any resolution or peace

What we're doing is not helping Palestinians, Israelis, or the average Joe in Canada. In fact its moving us further away.

What do you mean by this?

[Fl4me5]

Placing 99% of the blame and responsibility on Israel, and accepting that as a society. Hamas is just an asterisk. They get a token "yeah they bad too" and then its right back to Israel and them being the main problem.

If there was an equal amount of protesting, hate, and disgust for Hamas in society as there is for Israel, I believe things would have turned out differently.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Slight oversimplification of what happened. But also you're missing the part where Hitler merked 6 million Jews while the whole world sat by and watched.

The United States alone send 16 million men into battle. Canada sent 10% of it's population. The USSR lost 20+ million people trying to stop Hitler.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

Placing 99% of the blame and responsibility on Israel, and accepting that as a society. Hamas is just an asterisk. They get a token "yeah they bad too" and then its right back to Israel and them being the main problem.

If there was an equal amount of protesting, hate, and disgust for Hamas in society as there is for Israel, I believe things would have turned out differently.

Hamas is already a known terrorist organization, why do regular people need to protest them? We all already accept them as "the enemy". It'd be like expecting people to protest against ISIS/Al-qaeda.

The difference is Israel is a democratic country that is entirely held to a different (and much higher) standard. We should and do expect better of them.

Or should we just assume the Israel regime as a terrorist organization? Not too far off at this point.

[Barnet Flame]

At this point, the Israeli regime is exactly that - by word and deed. There is no sugar coating it.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Slight oversimplification of what happened. But also you're missing the part where Hitler merked 6 million Jews while the whole world sat by and watched.



Similar to what you've said about how everyone already agrees Hamas is bad, I and many others have repeatedly said that I think what's happening in the West Bank is wrong. But you keep bringing it up as some sort of gotcha thing.

So should the world sit by and watch Israel "merk", as you say, 2 million Palestinians by systematically starving them out?

[Fl4me5]

Thanks for proving my point - they have been designated by countries as a terrorist group so activism is off limits lol.

By that logic, maybe Israel should become a terrorist state to get everyone off their backs.

Do you notice the self-fulfilling prophecy is in action? This is my entire point. The world is driving Israel to the limit.

[Looch City]

The world is driving Israel to the limit (aka genocide?).

That's a new one I hadn't heard yet.

[Fl4me5]

No I did not say that.

What is up with so many posters here twisting words and meaning in vile ways. Its so manipulative and prevents any legitimate discussion.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

"The whole world sat by and watched"? Were they not in the midst of a world war? Are we just making stuff up for fun now? Are all of these questions rhetorical?

Lol tell me you don't know history without telling me you don't know history...

World War 2 - 1939 - 1945

Holocaust - 1933 - 1945

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Leondros

So should the world sit by and watch Israel "merk", as you say, 2 million Palestinians by systematically starving them out?

I never said that?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Lol tell me you don't know history without telling me you don't know history...

World War 2 - 1939 - 1945

Holocaust - 1933 - 1945

Ohh like how the world is watching the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. Then yes I agree you’re right. So in about 4 years we should expect the world to step in and stop the current regime's genocidal atrocities against humanity. It really is true that hurt people hurt people.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

So you didn't read my previous post.

I did, but it's necessary to mention that it was because of the Holocaust that the Britain created Israel. It wasn't out of nowhere that this happened.

Originally Posted by ThePrince

It's not a gotcha when it's literally evidence to support the point that we're making. I'm not trying to trick you into anything. I'm trying to show you how your logic makes no sense.

Sorry, I don't understand the point. Could you elaborate in a different way please? I do want to understand.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Lol tell me you don't know history without telling me you don't know history...

World War 2 - 1939 - 1945

Holocaust - 1933 - 1945

I don't wish to be pedantic but the holocaust started in 1941, there was systemic anti semetism in pre war Germany but systemic killing of Jews didn't start until the war was well under way

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Ohh like how the world is watching the Israeli genocide of Palestinians. Then yes I agree you’re right. So in about 4 years we should expect the world to step in and stop the current regime's genocidal atrocities against humanity. It really is true that hurt people hurt people.

So you admit that your previous post was wrong?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fl4me5

I'm not sure, that's why I brought it up for discussion. I guess I'm just working through a thought exercise.

I do think that the world's reaction has further emboldened Israel. You're right, they don't give a ####, and I think a big part of that is because no one gives a #### about them.

I'm just hypothetically thinking if somehow the main goal initially was eradication of Hamas, acceptance that there would be casualties, and then sanction Israel to high hell as punishment after. Maybe, just maybe, there would have been a better outcome? I understand this is cold-hearted. But so is everything happening there continuously. A proverbial ripping of the band-aid?

That was the goal.

JERUSALEM, Oct 11 (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu forged an emergency government on Wednesday to direct war against Hamas, and his defence minister vowed to wipe the Palestinian militant group "off the face of the earth" over its deadly weekend attack.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nt-2023-10-11/

So you either accept that they are not very good at it, or they realized by keeping Hamas as the enemy it allows them to justify the genocide of the Palestinian people. So, incompetent or malicious. I know what the evidence points to.

As to acceptance of casualties, that's always a known thing with retaliation. I think the world gave Israel a lot of leeway on this one. How many casualties do you think is acceptable to eradicate Hamas, and are we there yet? Do you know why there is push back? Because most people believe we are far beyond the point where casualties justify current actions. Which is why there are protests that you find distasteful. Sorry, in your words "Chaos and anarchy in our streets".

So you've proposed a couple things that already happened.

I'd suggest Israel and their war supporters stop viewing themselves as victims and start accepting they are perpetrators in their own right. Because as victims they feel justified in retaliation, and fail to see the support they have for defence. As perpetrators they then have choice and agency. Yes, it will be tragic when violence is used against them, but you don't "win" these conflicts with bombs. That much should be more than obvious by this point, but it apparently is not.

This is the reality of setting up the country they did, in the way they did, where they did it. I'm sorry the region is full of evils, but more evil isn't going to vanquish it. The reason no one has a solution for peace should be fairly obvious by now.