I don't know what game you played but but part of the problem with TLOU2 is by the end of the game there there were no redeemable characters including Ellie. This was always going to be the path if they stayed close to the source material. Nobody should really be surprised when the first season that mirrors the first game which was universally liked/loved is also universally liked/loved and the second season that mirrors the 2nd game that was very divisive is also pretty divisive with viewers.
Spoiler!
I think the problem is that show watchers dislike Ellie for different reasons than game players. In the game you’re supposed to be frustrated with her obsession with revenge. But in the show she just seems like an immature spoiled brat. I don’t think they’ve done nearly a good enough job at showing us that Ellie is straight up obsessed with finding Jules killer and bringing them to justice. To the point where she’ll sacrifice any and all relationships with anyone else she cares about.
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I think the problem is that show watchers dislike Ellie for different reasons than game players. In the game you’re supposed to be frustrated with her obsession with revenge. But in the show she just seems like an immature spoiled brat. I don’t think they’ve done nearly a good enough job at showing us that Ellie is straight up obsessed with finding Jules killer and bringing them to justice. To the point where she’ll sacrifice any and all relationships with anyone else she cares about.
Spoiler!
I dont know anything about the video game, but an obsession with revenge can be a compelling plot line, but it would have made more sense if they had established a firm connection between her and Joel that was believable. In the show its essentially Joel trying to be nice because he sees her as a replacement for his daughter and Ellie just hates him and is a bitch at every turn, and then all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that she'll move Heaven and Earth to avenge this guy she apparently hates?
Its just not compelling or believable. Combining that with the fact that she's a largely un-trained kid who appears to be bi-polar and reckless and almost entirely unskilled it just comes off as satire.
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Definitely a much weaker season than the 9 out of 10 first season. I give the season a 7 out of 10. This season shows why Bella Ramsey wasn't the best person for the Ellie role, though the writing of her character didn't help.
Definitely a much weaker season than the 9 out of 10 first season. I give the season a 7 out of 10. This season shows why Bella Ramsey wasn't the best person for the Ellie role, though the writing of her character didn't help.
Yeah, this is another little conundrum for me. I cant tell if Bella Ramsey is an excellent actress doing a perfect job of a role she was given? I really dont know.
Whether its Bella's poor acting or the fact that the main 'protagonist' just sucks? Its hard to tell and that kind of sours the story.
Joel was a 'protagonist.' You knew who and what he was, and you knew he'd do bad things for reasons he thought were right. Thats an interesting character.
Watching some dead-pan teenager throw constant hissy fits, being an idiot and having an attitude that swings in either direction more often than a pendulum? Not interested.
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
For what it's worth, I think her character is super ####ing interesting. It's a very non-traditional hero character, somewhat anti-hero as we've seen in recent popular series, but still has very strong hero characteristics. Just does and says a lot of dumb things, but that would be appropriate to her age.
I'm into it.
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For what it's worth, I think her character is super ####ing interesting. It's a very non-traditional hero character, somewhat anti-hero as we've seen in recent popular series, but still has very strong hero characteristics. Just does and says a lot of dumb things, but that would be appropriate to her age.
I'm into it.
I'm just not so quick.
The thing is, from a viewer's standpoint she isn't interesting so much as she is annoying and frustrating.
I hope there are changes coming because I am firmly convinced that the character of Ellie cannot carry this show.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
For what it's worth, I think her character is super ####ing interesting. It's a very non-traditional hero character, somewhat anti-hero as we've seen in recent popular series, but still has very strong hero characteristics. Just does and says a lot of dumb things, but that would be appropriate to her age.
I'm into it.
I'm with you. The writing is kinda iffy and there are definitely different choices to be made with a lot of things but she's doing fine IMO.
I think a good thing to keep in mind with Ellie is that from the first moment we meet her she is angry and unpredictable. This softened as season 1 progressed, and it really seems like Joel was the stabilizing, father figure in her life.
Now that he has (violently) been taken from her, she has resorted back to the angry, compulsive personality she has without that guiding force in her life correcting course.
She's not rational without Joel, and as such those personality flaws are the catalyst to the plot points of Season 2 (and likely going forward). If you don't dig that, the show is probably going to lose your interest and you're going to find the character irritating.
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My parents used to own an arcade in the beddington mall in the 90s, my mom cant remember the name, does anyone remember this, apparently it was a disaster
I remember that arcade, but I moved in 1993, and I think most of my memories were from the late 80's but maybe early 90's too. Right off the food court if I recall.
I think a good thing to keep in mind with Ellie is that from the first moment we meet her she is angry and unpredictable. This softened as season 1 progressed, and it really seems like Joel was the stabilizing, father figure in her life.
Now that he has (violently) been taken from her, she has resorted back to the angry, compulsive personality she has without that guiding force in her life correcting course.
She's not rational without Joel, and as such those personality flaws are the catalyst to the plot points of Season 2 (and likely going forward). If you don't dig that, the show is probably going to lose your interest and you're going to find the character irritating.
Spoiler!
Part of the problem is source material does all these thing better than the show. The character is more rounded, more believable and displays those traits more convincingly.
I don’t think complaints about show Ellie are centered on her being angry. It’s that she’s immature and dumb. Game ellie was obsessed but smart. Never stupid.
Yes they’re different versions of the same character. But it’s impossible, as a game player, to ignore they did it sooo much better in the game.
Maybe it’s because Bella isn’t a great actress or the writing is weaker or the budget constraints robbed of us of more character development but in the parts of the show they did include, this version of Ellie is a weaker character, less convincing and infinitely less dynamic than her game counterpart.
I was so mad at Ellie in the game that she made these decisions. The dynamic of Joel making the decision he made at the end of the first game to save her, robbing her of her agency and now she's robbing herself of it by carrying out a revenge plot he never would have wanted for her was so tragic. Yes he was dead but she could have had the life he killed all those people to have. She's throwing it all away for him and it's not what he wanted.
But in the show, this journey of hers is overshadowed by how immature and stupid she seems all the time. I'm not disappointed in her like I was in the game. I'm annoyed with her. And sure it's normal for a 19 year old to be immature but that wasn't a trait she showed in the game. She was funny and had personality, maybe even compulsive, but she wasn't immature. Life as an immune savior in a post apocalyptic world will do a lot to mature a person quickly. As will having multiple harrowing journeys that includes being kidnapped by cannibals and seeing your father figure murdered before your eyes. That was the tragedy.
She lost all her innocence and turned into this systematic killer with desire for revenge. But right there in Jackson was a life of peace and serenity and now she's ruined it. Again, I love the comparison with her experience with her first love in the mall. She was robbed of teenage puppy love because of tragedy. Now she's had a second chance and she's ####ed it all up.
To be fair, I don't think Dina is nearly as interesting of a character in the show either. Here's hoping they get a more true to the source material Abby. Everything hinges on what they do with Abby.
I still thought S2 was fine. But it was far inferior to the first season and is far inferior to the game.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 06-03-2025 at 04:19 PM.
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Part of the problem is source material does all these thing better than the show. The character is more rounded, more believable and displays those traits more convincingly.
I don’t think complaints about show Ellie are centered on her being angry. It’s that she’s immature and dumb. Game ellie was obsessed but smart. Never stupid.
Yes they’re different versions of the same character. But it’s impossible, as a game player, to ignore they did it sooo much better in the game.
Maybe it’s because Bella isn’t a great actress or the writing is weaker or the budget constraints robbed of us of more character development but in the parts of the show they did include, this version of Ellie is a weaker character, less convincing and infinitely less dynamic than her game counterpart.
I was so mad at Ellie in the game that she made these decisions. The dynamic of Joel making the decision he made at the end of the first game to save her, robbing her of her agency and now she's robbing herself of it by carrying out a revenge plot he never would have wanted for her was so tragic. Yes he was dead but she could have had the life he killed all those people to have. She's throwing it all away for him and it's not what he wanted.
But in the show, this journey of hers is overshadowed by how immature and stupid she seems all the time. I'm not disappointed in her like I was in the game. I'm annoyed with her. And sure it's normal for a 19 year old to be immature but that wasn't a trait she showed in the game. She was funny and had personality, maybe even compulsive, but she wasn't immature. Life as an immune savior in a post apocalyptic world will do a lot to mature a person quickly. As will having multiple harrowing journeys that includes being kidnapped by cannibals and seeing your father figure murdered before your eyes. That was the tragedy.
She lost all her innocence and turned into this systematic killer with desire for revenge. But right there in Jackson was a life of peace and serenity and now she's ruined it. Again, I love the comparison with her experience with her first love in the mall. She was robbed of teenage puppy love because of tragedy. Now she's had a second chance and she's ####ed it all up.
To be fair, I don't think Dina is nearly as interesting of a character in the show either. Here's hoping they get a more true to the source material Abby. Everything hinges on what they do with Abby.
I still thought S2 was fine. But it was far inferior to the first season and is far inferior to the game.
I'm going to avoid reading the rest of that just in case, but as a person that hated the first game and never played through past the first few hours I'm basing my entire analysis on the show only with no reference point to the source material.
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"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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I don’t think I put in any game spoilers but if I did I apologize. I tried to keep it fairly neutral and only reference the fact that I liked the game better. But I did spoiler it just because I am referencing the game so frequently.
I don’t think there’s any game spoilers in there at all, just contrasting the characters we’ve already seen in the show and what they’ve already done/what’s already happened in the show with the same things in the game.
But I agree with all of it. Whatever the reason, the character is just not great and a lot of what made Ellie somewhat redeemable/interesting even if you didn’t like the game isn’t present.
Though we’ll see with season three. Obviously I know what happens, but feel comfortable mentioning this since interviews with the cast/articles on the show has confirmed as much, but we may not really see Ellie much for the next… 4-5 years? lol. Crazy gaps between seasons. I still have decently high hopes for what they do with season 3 (in 2+ years).
I don’t think I put in any game spoilers but if I did I apologize. I tried to keep it fairly neutral and only reference the fact that I liked the game better. But I did spoiler it just because I am referencing the game so frequently.
I'm just being paranoid about spoilers so I'm playing it safe whenever game talk arises. No apology necessary, Cecil.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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Though we’ll see with season three. Obviously I know what happens, but feel comfortable mentioning this since interviews with the cast/articles on the show has confirmed as much, but we may not really see Ellie much for the next… 4-5 years? lol. Crazy gaps between seasons. I still have decently high hopes for what they do with season 3 (in 2+ years).
It's pretty tough to avoid what season 3 will be about for two years with places like Gamespot and IGN writing articles about it and putting it right in the title.
But I don't think it's something that's going to ruin it for people who haven't played the game which is probably why they aren't being shy about tallking about it.
