Cowboys moving to 5st and 4Ave

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Your basing racism in clubs as your comparison to the South? You think it's unique to Calgary or Alberta? You don't think that people of the West Indies in Toronto aren't "segregated" as you would call it when the hit the door of some clubs? Haitian's in Montreal? Asians in Vancouver? North African's in London, Paris, Amsterdam?

Where in the world would you not compare to the South?

Having lived in those cities(not London, Paris or Am), in reality, clubs in T.O., Mtl or Van do not have the same type of racism at the doors as in this city. There may be the odd club in each city that plays the race card at the door, but in those cities, it is few and far between. Unlike Calgary, where a majority of the major clubs practice racism policies.

I am of both West Indian and Asian descent and assure you that such tactics would not work in T.O, Mtl or Van. It was much more prevelant here. I am not sure bout London, Paris or Amsterdam.

One could argue that it is representative of the owners and not the city, but despite the known and proven racism here at the clubs here in Calgary, people still go and support these establishments. Complaints to he Human rights does little as nothing is ever done, due to the commission having no teeth.

I have been involved in both researching and actively monitoring racism tactics in Calgary with respect to clubs here for years. This includes talking to focus groups(both in Calgary and nationwide), it certainly is more of a problem here than any other Canadian city(funny thing is 2 owners of a certain group which owns establishments are actually of ethnic decent here, which is ironic).

[Cowboy89]

Burninator: What were the ages of the people mentioned in your story?

Back when I was in University I used to get the its 'over 25 night' excuse all the time. But yet now that I'm a couple of years out of university (But still under 25) I seem to have no trouble getting in anywhere even when travelling with the same friends as my University days. Maybe they aim for the mid to late 20s crowd as yet another qualifier (I'm white for what it matters).

[KAI]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Having lived in those cities(not London, Paris or Am), in reality, clubs in T.O., Mtl or Van do not have the same type of racism at the doors as in this city. There may be the odd club in each city that plays the race card at the door, but in those cities, it is few and far between. Unlike Calgary, where a majority of the major clubs practice racism policies.

I am of both West Indian and Asian descent and assure you that such tactics would not work in T.O, Mtl or Van. It was much more prevelant here. I am not sure bout London, Paris or Amsterdam.

One could argue that it is representative of the owners and not the city, but despite the known and proven racism here at the clubs here in Calgary, people still go and support these establishments. Complaints to he Human rights does little as nothing is ever done, due to the commission having no teeth.

I have been involved in both researching and actively monitoring racism tactics in Calgary with respect to clubs here for years. This includes talking to focus groups(both in Calgary and nationwide), it certainly is more of a problem here than any other Canadian city(funny thing is 2 owners of a certain group which owns establishments are actually of ethnic decent here, which is ironic).

I think that is the problem right there. Calgarians wants to go to the vlub where they feel comfterble and for whatever reason they feel uncomfterble around racial minorities. So the club owners fallow suit and deny people based of race. This is not to say that the owners are off the hock but I think the problem runs deep in our society.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Now I wouldn't go to Global news with my story (something tells me they wouldn't run with it), just something for everyone to chew on.

Chances are Global wouldnt run it now. They have done it twice in the last few years. There is initial outrage by people at first, but then in a few weeks, everyone forgets what really happens in the cities clubs(racism) and everything goes back to normal. Nothing is ever resolved because of it.

They usually have public forums shortly after Global shows the news footage, but all that comes of these public forums are people coming forth with their own stories of racism at clubs, complaining, etc, nothing is ever done, essentially venting sessions. But, everything remains the same, despite the news footage.

For those on here that dont like to admit there is a racism problem in clubs in Calgary, for one second, push ur civic pride aside and realize there is a problem. It will only make our city more appealing and less of a negative image. No point in trying to deny or sweep it under the rug. In the end if it is awknowledged and changed, our city will be better because of it.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by KAI

I think that is the problem right there. Calgarians wants to go to the vlub where they feel comfterble and for whatever reason they feel uncomfterble around racial minorities. So the club owners fallow suit and deny people based of race. This is not to say that the owners are off the hock but I think the problem runs deep in our society.

Hence the racism image in the city. Its not just ethnic minorities that fight or cause trouble. All races do. The club owners use that as a crutch, by saying its all about safety for patrons. If a individual Calgarian thinks that a club is safer by having less minorities, well that is discrimination/racism and is typical ignorant thinking in this city.

Unfortunately it is ingrained in many of peoples mind in this city, due to years of propoganda being spread.

Sorry to hijack the thread to the original poster....we can switch back to Cowboys discussion.

[Ozy_Flame]

The only time I've been denied going into bars was when I was with my East Indian or Chinese friends. Without fail. We even tested this theory out, as one time we all walked past the bouncer as a group, and then broke up into the whites and non-whites. the whites got in no problem, and the non-whites were not allowed into the club. They used the "Over-25" thing as their excuse.

Bouncers in Calgary are racist. Nowhere else in the world for the bars I've been to have been this bad. I even know one of the bouncers at Cowboys personally, and he is honestly a 'roided up idiot who is definitely the kind of person to discriminate.

My advice - go to the lounges and pubs, or at least the late-20's-early-30's crowd places......It always seems to be the places where the kids go that this sort of ##### happens.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by KAI

I think that is the problem right there. Calgarians wants to go to the vlub where they feel comfterble and for whatever reason they feel uncomfterble around racial minorities. So the club owners fallow suit and deny people based of race. This is not to say that the owners are off the hock but I think the problem runs deep in our society.

I think that must be it. Because there's no reason for bars to be racist for being racist's sake. There's got to be a business case for them to be discriminatory. I've seen plenty of ######baggery in bars from all different races and creeds and find that whole 'safety arguement' doesn't hold much water.

But be careful to note the bars that have suceeded moneywise to ones that have closed down.

Make money and stayed in business awhile: Cowboys, Coyotes, Tantra, Mynt (demo'd due to new building not losing money), Roadhouse, The Whiskey, The Alley,

Closed down: My Apartment (aka Area 51), NYLA, Cherry Lounge, Euphoria, Metro,

[Wookie]

I love the blanket statements accusing everyone to do with said bars (patrons, employees, management, and ownership) as being racist, discriminatory, barbie dolls and juice monkeys.

Kind of... I don't know.. pot & kettle'esque?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Burninator: What were the ages of the people mentioned in your story?

Back when I was in University I used to get the its 'over 25 night' excuse all the time. But yet now that I'm a couple of years out of university (But still under 25) I seem to have no trouble getting in anywhere even when travelling with the same friends as my University days. Maybe they aim for the mid to late 20s crowd as yet another qualifier (I'm white for what it matters).

I was 21 at the time, but other people were 22 to 30. The boucner never mentioned our age. He didn't know our age because he wouldn't even take our ID's. We had just come from the Mynt too. Which is much stricter with it's dress code and to some degree it's age restriction. So It could be age, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. And I doubt it was dress code either.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Back when I was in University I used to get the its 'over 25 night' excuse all the time. But yet now that I'm a couple of years out of university (But still under 25) I seem to have no trouble getting in anywhere even when travelling with the same friends as my University days. Maybe they aim for the mid to late 20s crowd as yet another qualifier (I'm white for what it matters).

Me too, man... I've been out of university for a little over a year, and still under 25, and I don't seem to have a problem for some reason now. Yes, I'm white, but maybe it's because I dress better now than several years ago... otherwise I can't possibly see what would be different. I don't look THAT much different from when I was 18...

I was once barbed with the 'over 25 night' excuse from the Cowboys bouncers once. I said, 'hey guys, no problem... just make sure that you ding everyone else in line here, because they all look under 25 as well.' Then I stood and watched them deny some people, and let some in, but it didn't matter... I just walked around to the back alley entrance and simply just walked in at that point through the back. I've actually done that a couple times. Noone bothers to stop you... atleast, when I did it...

Another thing people have to realize is that if you are worried about not gaining admission into these places... look at the way you dress, the way you act, the company you are with, and the manner in which you carry yourself. If you're with a bunch of jockohomos (lol), and you're acting like ######s in line, and you're under 25... try a different approach. Act friendly, dress intelligently, and present yourself well.

I hate saying this since I can't stand bouncers in general, but... trying putting yourself in their line of sight, and see how all that looks when you see some people walking up to your club. How are you going to react?

I didn't bother pulling out the racism issue either, since I haven't had a problem with that yet. Although, maybe that's foretelling...

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Having lived in those cities(not London, Paris or Am), in reality, clubs in T.O., Mtl or Van do not have the same type of racism at the doors as in this city. There may be the odd club in each city that plays the race card at the door, but in those cities, it is few and far between. Unlike Calgary, where a majority of the major clubs practice racism policies.

I am of both West Indian and Asian descent and assure you that such tactics would not work in T.O, Mtl or Van. It was much more prevelant here. I am not sure bout London, Paris or Amsterdam.

One could argue that it is representative of the owners and not the city, but despite the known and proven racism here at the clubs here in Calgary, people still go and support these establishments. Complaints to he Human rights does little as nothing is ever done, due to the commission having no teeth.

I have been involved in both researching and actively monitoring racism tactics in Calgary with respect to clubs here for years. This includes talking to focus groups(both in Calgary and nationwide), it certainly is more of a problem here than any other Canadian city(funny thing is 2 owners of a certain group which owns establishments are actually of ethnic decent here, which is ironic).

I am not arguing that this happens to the same degree in all the cities that I listed. I think Calagry is the worst offender by far from my experiences. I was just putting forward the idea that it could happen in any of these major centres. These are all cities that are currently faced with racial tensions that exist outside the club scene. Some I have visited, some I have not.

Saying that Calgary can be likened to the southern United States because of racisim at the door of clubs is fallacious. In fact, I have experienced far more racisim living in Montreal than I have in Calgary.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Wookie

I love the blanket statements accusing everyone to do with said bars (patrons, employees, management, and ownership) as being racist, discriminatory, barbie dolls and juice monkeys.

Kind of... I don't know.. pot & kettle'esque?

Just what I was thinking...

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Wookie

I love the blanket statements accusing everyone to do with said bars (patrons, employees, management, and ownership) as being racist, discriminatory, barbie dolls and juice monkeys.

Kind of... I don't know.. pot & kettle'esque?

I dunno Wookie, perhaps.

But does calling someone a racist or a barbie doll, or roid monkey, actually make them one for saying it? I dunno.

Not sure how it's 'pot & kettle'esque', unless you can elaborate on it.

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by Muta

I dunno Wookie, perhaps.

But does calling someone a racist or a barbie doll, or roid monkey, actually make them one for saying it? I dunno.

Not sure how it's 'pot & kettle'esque', unless you can elaborate on it.

Eh, that's true - my choice of words doesn't quite make exact sense. But I think it's obvious what I'm getting at no?

[Flames09]

Why do people care if Cowboys is in Calgary or not??? It's not like Cowboys is just a Calgary thing, Edmonton has one too and so do several other cities. Anyways if you don't like it it's simple just don't go, everyone has their own preference.. just let them be. Mainly the discrimination is directed towards men, as a girl who is East Indian I have yet to experience all this racism at bars, it sucks but in a way it's their loss, they are not going to get your money so really they are the ones losing out (well that's the way I look at it). Weird thing is all my family from crappy ol' Edmonton loves coming to Calgary to party because it's much better here and they always get in..... (obviously their East Indian as well).

[someguy51]

I dislike all bars in Calgary. When I used to go to the bar I would always have problems because I didn't wear dress shoes.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Flames09

Why do people care if Cowboys is in Calgary or not??? It's not like Cowboys is just a Calgary thing, Edmonton has one too and so do several other cities. Anyways if you don't like it it's simple just don't go, everyone has their own preference.. just let them be. Mainly the discrimination is directed towards men, as a girl who is East Indian I have yet to experience all this racism at bars, it sucks but in a way it's their loss, they are not going to get your money so really they are the ones losing out (well that's the way I look at it). Weird thing is all my family from crappy ol' Edmonton loves coming to Calgary to party because it's much better here and they always get in..... (obviously their East Indian as well).

yes, Paul Vickers is certainly losing out on money by not letting me in

maybe if you did experience the racism there, or even cared about how others are treated, you'd have a different opinion then just ignoring it and you'd understand why some of us care.
It's humiliating and insulting and does not go away simply by ignoring it. Racism is fueled by ignoring, and is only stopped by education and pro-active discussion.
Some of us would like to see less racism at places that are considered to be representative of Calgary.

[Flames09]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

yes, Paul Vickers is certainly losing out on money by not letting me in

maybe if you did experience the racism there, or even cared about how others are treated, you'd have a different opinion then just ignoring it and you'd understand why some of us care.
It's humiliating and insulting and does not go away simply by ignoring it. Racism is fueled by ignoring, and is only stopped by education and pro-active discussion.
Some of us would like to see less racism at places that are considered to be representative of Calgary.

Right. First of all you have no right to say that I dont care how people are treated, you dont know me and I dont know you. I'm not going to lie and say I believe Cowboys is racist, how can I if I or no one I know has been at the recieving end of it. Thats as immature as going into Rexall place getting into a fight with an Oilers fan and saying everyone in Rexall is a scum bag who has nothing better to do then act immature and pick fights with a rival fan. We all preach how we hate that assumption and how a few bad apples shouldn't be used to judge a place alltogether. I'm not saying Cowboys isn't racist THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, and I'm not 'ignoring' the problem. My comment about not understanding why people care if there is a Cowboys in Calgary was more-so directed towards the whole Cowboy and Calgary association. Of course I would want places that are representative of Calgary to not be racist, heck lets deal with a problem in a few threads on this board, I would LOVE for people on this board (not all) to stop with the assumption that everyone who is not-white is an immigrant and should go back to their country if they don't like a certain rule. Sorry I wasn't more specific as too why I didn't understand the whole why people wouldn't want a place called Cowboys being in Calgary, and I still stand by what I said if you want it too stop don't give them your money, of course one person not going there won't make a difference but 100 people not going there will make a difference, even for Paul. Again I should have been more clear as to what my commented was directed towards....

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Flames09

heck lets deal with a problem in a few threads on this board, I would LOVE for people on this board (not all) to stop with the assumption that everyone who is not-white is an immigrant and should go back to their country if they don't like a certain rule.

Who said that? I hope this isn't in reference to me.

[KAI]

Originally Posted by Flames09

Why do people care if Cowboys is in Calgary or not??? It's not like Cowboys is just a Calgary thing, Edmonton has one too and so do several other cities. Anyways if you don't like it it's simple just don't go, everyone has their own preference.. just let them be. Mainly the discrimination is directed towards men, as a girl who is East Indian I have yet to experience all this racism at bars, it sucks but in a way it's their loss, they are not going to get your money so really they are the ones losing out (well that's the way I look at it). Weird thing is all my family from crappy ol' Edmonton loves coming to Calgary to party because it's much better here and they always get in..... (obviously their East Indian as well).

I don't buy that at all... I've lived in both Calgary and Edmonton and racail profiling at the doors of clubs is way worse in Calgary. It happens in Edmonton but in Calgary it seems like on any given night any bar will deny you based on race.