Israel declares war on Hamas

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The way the history of WWII and Nazism is taught in general leaves out a lot of details and really over simplifies things. Nazism and similar ideologies were a movement happening almost everywhere at the time (including in Palestine whose leaders allied with Hitler). Germany was the place where it took hold enough to form a government first, but it was happening at varying rates elsewhere. That is why some governments were easy to topple and install puppet regimes. There were already prefab governments in waiting that could be unpacked that had substantial support, kind of like their own Project 2025 plans. It's not that unlike the situation today with far-right authoritarianism increasing all over the place. The French really do get a bad rap for a lot of it though. While the government fell quickly, the large portions of the military fought throughout the whole war, sometimes as free French, and often under the command of other allies like Britain. If people want to call their politicians cowardly, fine, but many of the soldiers were extremely brave.

In a way, the Spanish Civil War was actually the start of WWII as essentially a proxy war for nations on either side of the ideologies at play there.

[TherapyforGlencross]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...rd-occupation/

“Are we settling the Land of Israel? Are we liberating Gaza?” he shouts, to cheers of approval from among the tens of thousands gathered at the holy site. “We are triumphing over the enemy!”

"We are conquering the Land of Israel, liberating Gaza, settling Gaza, and defeating the enemy," Smotrich said to crowds that had chanted "death to Arabs" as they marched through Jerusalem's Old City and attacked Palestinians.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-b...rs-settle-gaza

The minister of Finance.

[Fuzz]

It's only a few fringe voices that don't represent Israel.

[Fuzz]

You would think they'd know better than to treat others in the way their ancestors were treated that led to so much sadness and devastation, but instead they seem destined to force it on others. The bullied have turned into the bullies, doing the very thing they said "never again" to. I guess they really just meant "never again to us".


PS: When you start acting like Nazis, don't be surprised when the rest of the world begins to respond to you in the same way they responded to Nazis(the ignoring disaster period may be coming to an end).

[activeStick]

I was reading about some survey that Haaretz did with a bunch of questions related to readers' views on Palestenians, what should be done about Gaza, etc and the results looked pretty terrible.

[SutterBrother]

NYT article suggests the mood in Israel from the center and the right is starting to shift against Netanyahu.

I just spent a week in Israel and, while it may not look as if much has changed — the grinding Gaza war continues to grind — I felt something new there for the first time since Oct. 7, 2023. It is premature to call it a broad-based antiwar movement, which can happen only when all the Israeli hostages are returned. But I did see signals flashing that more Israelis, from the left to the center and to even parts of the right, are concluding that continuing this war is a disaster for Israel: morally, diplomatically or strategically.

From the political center, the former prime minister Ehud Olmert wrote an essay in the newspaper Haaretz in which he pulled no punches against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his coalition. “The government of Israel is currently waging a war without purpose, without goals or clear planning and with no chances of success,” Olmert argued. “What we are doing in Gaza now is a war of extermination: indiscriminate, limitless, cruel and criminal killing of civilians.” His conclusion: “Yes, Israel is committing war crimes.”

From the right, you have the likes of Amit Halevi, a member of Netanyahu’s own right-wing Likud party, who is staunchly pro-war but thinks its execution has been bungled. Halevi had his membership on the Knesset’s foreign affairs and defense committee suspended by Netanyahu’s coalition after he voted against a proposal to extend the government’s ability to issue emergency call-up orders for Israeli reservists. In an interview with the newspaper Yediot Ahronot following his dismissal, Halevi said: “This war is a deception. They lied to us about its achievements.” Israel has “been fighting a war for 20 months with failed plans” and it “is not succeeding in destroying Hamas.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/27/o...netanyahu.html

[PepsiFree]

Pretty wild that the same positions and criticisms that would have you labelled anti-semitic and pro-Hamas just months ago are now being share by the center and even the right in Israel. Lots of people waking up to reality, even if it took a while.

[TheIronMaiden]

One dead and 48 injured after Israeli soldiers open fire at Gaza food point

In a statement, the foundation said: “At one moment in the late afternoon, the volume of people at the SDS [secure distribution centre] was such that the GHF team fell back to allow a small number of Palestinians in Gaza to take aid safely and dissipate.”

The Israeli military said it fired “warning shots” near the compound to restore control, but denied firing towards people.

The UN and other humanitarian organisations have rejected the new system, saying it would not be able to meet the needs of Gaza’s 2.3 million people and allowed Israel to use food as a weapon to control the population. They have also said there was a risk of friction between Israeli troops and hungry people seeking supplies.

The organisations added that a newly formed group had no experience and so would not be able to handle the logistics of feeding more than 2 million people in a devastated combat zone, a prediction that the dangerous scenes on Tuesday appeared to confirm.

The head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (Unrwa), Philippe Lazzarini, said on Wednesday that the new – US-backed – distribution model was a waste of resources and a distraction from “atrocities”.

“We already have an aid distribution system that is fit for purpose,” Lazzarini said. “The humanitarian community in Gaza, including Unrwa, is ready. We have the experience and expertise to reach people in need. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking towards famine, so humanitarian [work] must be allowed to do its life-saving work now.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-point-reports

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Pretty wild that the same positions and criticisms that would have you labelled anti-semitic and pro-Hamas just months ago are now being share by the center and even the right in Israel. Lots of people waking up to reality, even if it took a while.

The funny thing is, you always know these slow thinkers will end up there eventually. 20/20 foresight can be a frustrating affliction.

[Fuzz]

Israel's government has approved 22 new Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank, its finance minister said on Thursday, a move condemned by Israeli human rights groups that may strain ties with key allies that have threatened sanctions.

Bezalel Smotrich, an ultra-nationalist in the ruling right-wing coalition who has long advocated for Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank, wrote on social media platform X that the settlements would be located in the northern West Bank, without specifying exactly where.

Israeli media cited the Defence Ministry as saying that among the new settlements, existing "outposts" would be legalized under Israeli law and new settlements would also be built.

"This historic decision sends a clear message — we are here not only to stay but to establish the State of Israel here for all its residents and to strengthen its security," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...546966?cmp=rss

I 'member when people used to flaccidly argue Israel wasn't actually trying to take everything. Any regrets to smatter around, or are you just content in your ghoulishness?

[KelVarnsen]

I hope one day that Benjamin Netanyahu is hung for his crimes

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I hope one day that Benjamin Netanyahu is hung for his crimes

Keep dreaming. They'll give him a cushy lobbyist or diplomat position in DC.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You would think they'd know better than to treat others in the way their ancestors were treated that led to so much sadness and devastation, but instead they seem destined to force it on others. The bullied have turned into the bullies, doing the very thing they said "never again" to. I guess they really just meant "never again to us".


PS: When you start acting like Nazis, don't be surprised when the rest of the world begins to respond to you in the same way they responded to Nazis(the ignoring disaster period may be coming to an end).

Nazis killed 2/3 of European Jews in gas chambers. What's going on in Gaza is not even 1/10 of that scale, even if you believe Hamas numbers.

Also... Did Jews hold some Germans as hostages? Were Jews offered several truce proposals and rejected them?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Pretty wild that the same positions and criticisms that would have you labelled anti-semitic and pro-Hamas just months ago are now being share by the center and even the right in Israel. Lots of people waking up to reality, even if it took a while.

They are not really "waking up". They are frustrated with Netanyahu's failure to bring the hostages back. Bringing them back is a sort of a national quest now. Pictures of hostages are on every other street. The "bring back" sign is in TV soccer broadcasts near the score. A lot of people are increasingly question

1. Whether Netanyahu really cares about hostages or merely keeps this war ongoing to remain in power.
2. Even if one assumes, that Netanyahu sincerely tries to return hostages, it's being questioned that conducting a war is the best way to achieve it.

This has nothing to do with horrors that Gazans suffer.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...546966?cmp=rss

I 'member when people used to flaccidly argue Israel wasn't actually trying to take everything. Any regrets to smatter around, or are you just content in your ghoulishness?

You are confusing Gaza and West Bank. Nobody wants Gaza. Israel offered it to Egypt in 1978 and they declined. Gaza is a desert strip with 2 millions of people sitting there waiting for the next truck of food. Nobody wants to govern that. The coast line does have some turism potential, but there are many coast lines in the world, also still many unused coastlines in Israel itself.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

This is such BS.

First of all, Israel has been obviously doing an indiscriminate genocide since day 1 one of this operation, so really even to claim that eradicating Hamas was ever the main goal is disingenuous.


Second, even if we would accept the obviously BS claim that this was at any point only about Hamas, basically every expert has been telling since the beginning of the operation that what Israel has been doing is unlikely to work, and will most likely only makes the security situation much worse for both the international Jewish diaspora and Israeli population overall. Which is exactly what has happened. You would think that making the security situation worse instead of better would matter, but it doesn't. Obviously, because that was always an excuse.

Because none of this has been about making Israel safe.

Israel's global reputation has been absolutely destroyed to a point of no return, and we aren't even at the point when this genocide will be taught in schools. It will however. Israel is now primarily known as the genocide nation. Literal nazis as well as various far-right extremist groups ow waive Israeli flags side by side with their own flag.

Yet people will still defend Israel, because we live in the stupid timeline.

Strange take from a person who said that Russian civilians have Ukrainian blood on their hands. Which, by the way is something I can at least partially agree with.

Israel is much safer now than it was on 6th October 2023. Hezbollah on the north is all but eradicated. Their rockets are spent. On Gaza Hamas, although alive, has not been able to launch a single rocket at Israel for months. Housithis in Yemen are still occasionally launching one rocket at time, but have yet to kill a single person.

The legimate argument that could be made is whether such a horrible war is justified by making Israel safe and whether those horrors are Israel or Gaza government fault. Another point is whether it is the best way to return hostages.

But on whether this war made Israel safer, it obviously did.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Dude, these are quotes from the people in power doing the things. Yes, the site is probably biased, but unless you are going to show those quotes are misleading as presented, and not the actual thoughts and words of the people saying them, your dismissal does nothing more than prove you do not care about reality. I used them because they are easy to find all in one place.


You are welcome to hunt for more that disprove your statement that they didn't feel and act this way from day one. You made a claim without evidence, I countered with evidence. If you think that makes me full of ####, I'd suggest that is a stronger reflection on you than me.


As to you taking the Nakba comment as a comment on your own views, well, again, that's you assuming something. People have argued in this thread it was basically made up. My snide remark was against that, but hey, if you instantly felt like you needed to strike at the remark, does that not indicate you share those feelings? I'm sure you have a deep one sided story you've convinced yourself to downplay the horrific acts that took place at the time.

You do realize that 2 millions of Palestine Arabs are living in Israel? They have mosques and Arab language schools. If Jews were full of hate towards Arabs, they would have cleaned inside their own country first, as it is much easier to do..

Regarding Nakba, it wasn't "made up". The next day after Israel AND PALESTINE STATE were founded, Arabs, instead of building Palestine state, declared the war on Israel looking to destroy it. They were defeated and called that defeat Nakba, which is Arabic for catastrophe.

I guess, starting a war against Israel always ends up as a catastrophe of some kind, as it is now for Gaza.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Wow, today I learned the Nakba was just a misunderstanding and not a violent mass ethnic cleansing.

Neat.

Who, in your opinion, started the war that ended up in Catastrophe, and what were their war goals?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Nobody gives a #### about them? Seriously?

Israel literally has a blank check from the most powerful nation in the world. The world literally gave them a country by taking that land away from another group of people. Billions and billions in aid. By far the most advanced military in the region and one of the best intelligence agencies in the world built from that aid. And you're saying nobody gives a #### about Israel?

Israel has gotten more grace and latitude than any other country would be getting. Just because they're finally being held accountable for their actions, doesn't mean nobody gives a #### about them.

I also see that you continue to ignore my comments about the West Bank. Must be a lot more simple to construct your point when you ignore that.

That's false.

1. On state level, that land belonged to UK. They can give it to whomever they chose. There was NEVER a Palestine state before 1948. UK, after a vote by UN, decided to split Palestine land into a Jewish state and Arab Palestine state. UK didn't take a land from Arabs and gave it to Jews. Before UK it was Ottoman Empire land, not Arab Palestine land.

Furthermore, the Palestine was originally called Judea, literally land of Jews. It was renamed into Palestine by Romans intentionally in order to make it look as Jews have nothing to do with it.

2. On personal level, that is in terms of individuals owning the land, it was bought. Jewish funds were buying land from Arab individuals.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's frustrating this is the type of thing people get hung up on, and that we have to keep repeating the same stuff, and you still don't get it.

Israel has a democratically elected government, presumably acting on the will of the people and depends on the international community to support it's survival. They are necessarily held to a high standard because we enable them. With this support they choose to murder, starve, and commit genocide to innocent people, many of whom have never even had a chance to vote for their future, let alone imagine one. They provoke (West Bank), receive push back, and use that as justification for slaughter and theft of land and livelihood. They have, little by little, removed any sense of future, hope, survival and humanity of the Palestinian people.

Hamas threatens their own citizens with death if they are betrayed. Innocent citizens have no choice in rejecting them. No one disputes that Hamas is evil and is not helping and must go. So why do we need to discuss it? There is nothing to discuss. You want to, go ahead. I suspect you won't get any push back on those points.

So the issue is that everyone agrees Hamas must go. THe problem is that Israel has equated Palestinians with Hamas, which allows them to be murdered for the sake of killing terrorists. We know this, because they'll take random Palestinians and use them as human shields. They see them as the same. So Israel has chosen to destroy an entire people(no longer debatable) because of the actions of a few.

The question isn't why aren't we constantly condemning Hamas, but how can you not condemn Israel? Why is your biggest concern if we are being fair in our discussion where we point out a technologically superior military is still managing to kill so many innocents? It's almost like they want to. And that should be condemned no matter who is doing it. These are humans who have done nothing wrong but be born in the wrong spot.

You said that Ukrainians have every right to kill Russian civilians. Did you change your mind on that?

Israel isn't trying to destroy the entire nation. If they are, they are on pace to spend 50 years on that, as they have only destroyed about 2% of population, according to Hamas figures.

Using civilians to clear the tunnels from traps is a way to prevent soldiers from being killed. If I'm a soldier, I would also send some civilian to clear it instead of risking my own life. It's perfectly understandable situation. You could be against it, that would be legitimate argument. Trying to sell it as a proof of genocidal intentions sounds phony.