[Rumour] Dailyfaceoff: Flames might go big game hunting this summer

[Jason14h]

I am one of the people who thinks the Flames have one of the least top to bottom talented teams in the NHL and expect a large regression next season and a bottom 7 finish

However - if you can get a player of Marners quality at his age for nothing but money you do it 10/10 times

I think there’s zero chance he comes here, but players his caliber almost never hit UFA

[taxbuster]

Well, I’ll choose to wait and see. I don’t think Connie has lost his marbles and that he has a game plan in mind. Might not be MY game plan, or yours…but I DO believe he will work his butt off to execute it. IMO he hasn’t done anything off the rails yet, nor do I expect him to.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yeah I think we could call it fine tuning. There's soft spots in the top 6 FW group they could swap around. And 1 top line player has a cascading effect down the line up as it pushes other players into more acute spots for their talents.

I.e sign Marner and Pospisil is shuffled down to the 4th line.
He doesn't need to be in the top 9 to be effective for his talents.

And even then I believe they can make trades with other forwards to bring a bit more scoring.

The forward group needs work. We have some good kids coming along and some vets who are on the wrong side of the peak in Backlund andaybe Coleman.

Sprinkle on top of that some added offense from BRZ and Parekh in the very near future it's pretty easy to see team offense improving immediately if they signed one top line player.

Which makes think about a potential Andersson trade, what's their real.goal terms of what they get back for him? More futures?

Thats an interesting question.

Myself I'm looking for a top 15 pick, or a top center prospect if thats offered I'm breaking a leg to go sign the papers. However i think if that had been offered for any of the players shipped out in the last year the trade would have been made right away. I just dont think anyone is offering a center.

Catton and a second? Let me call you a cab Rasmus thank for your time.

[midniteowl]

You know, if Treliving is still our GM, I will not be surprised he'd throw $18M x 7 at Marner. That's why I'm so glad he is no longer our GM.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

You know, if Treliving is still our GM, I will not be surprised he'd throw $18M x 7 at Marner. That's why I'm so glad he is no longer our GM.

I find my consumption of tums is far lower under the conroy regime.

For all the talk of being in the mushy middle this is the first time i remember as a fan just missing the playoffs but having a bunch of first round picks, a loaded farm system, cap out the flazoo, and a bunch if prospect bullying and their way onto the roster.

My guess is is we do something about that center this offseason, we draft a few centers i think the tune about the team changes pretty quick.

[Hackey]

The Flames are a ways away from fine tuning. They don't even have an established core yet.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think we can conclusively say where this team is at right now. I think it can go either way next season.


2015 was one hell of a fun season too, but it quickly went away the following year. Will the Flames continue to exceed expectations next season? Or will they fall back similarly to the early portion of the Gaudreau-Monahan era, that ended with the drafting of Tkachuk? One of the common complaints from that timeline was that Treliving made moves too quickly in thinking that the rebuild was further ahead than it really was. That team - at least from the 2015 and without the benefit of hindsight - might have been further ahead in some ways. Superstar player in Gaudreau, Monahan a #1C, Bennett projecting as a #1C, Giordano and Brodie being a completely dominant pairing. Backlund turning into "Mr. Selke". Ferland being a monster.



Strange things can happen. I am waiting for this off-season's moves to figure out what direction I think this team goes. I really don't see them signing a top-end UFA - unless they are significantly overpaying, which is never really a good thing.



I personally think that Conroy had a plan last off-season, and he will stick to the same plan this off-season. I don't think one season where expectations were exceeded will change his plan (whatever that plan may be). He has seen seasons of 'exceeded expectations' followed-up with 'did not meet expectations'. It isn't just the Flames - plenty of teams do this. Vancouver year-to-year lately. Nashville is a good example. Was last season the outlier? Or the baseline?



I guess we will see what Conroy thinks if he trades Andersson for futures and just signs a few depth players. Maybe he adds to the roster significantly. Maybe he subtracts.


There are too many forwards on the team, and ARGUABLY not enough defencemen (depending on what you see in Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Poirier, Brzustewicz, and especially as to how dominant (or not) you see Parekh this upcoming season.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't think we can conclusively say where this team is at right now. I think it can go either way next season.


2015 was one hell of a fun season too, but it quickly went away the following year. Will the Flames continue to exceed expectations next season? Or will they fall back similarly to the early portion of the Gaudreau-Monahan era, that ended with the drafting of Tkachuk? One of the common complaints from that timeline was that Treliving made moves too quickly in thinking that the rebuild was further ahead than it really was. That team - at least from the 2015 and without the benefit of hindsight - might have been further ahead in some ways. Superstar player in Gaudreau, Monahan a #1C, Bennett projecting as a #1C, Giordano and Brodie being a completely dominant pairing. Backlund turning into "Mr. Selke". Ferland being a monster.



Strange things can happen. I am waiting for this off-season's moves to figure out what direction I think this team goes. I really don't see them signing a top-end UFA - unless they are significantly overpaying, which is never really a good thing.



I personally think that Conroy had a plan last off-season, and he will stick to the same plan this off-season. I don't think one season where expectations were exceeded will change his plan (whatever that plan may be). He has seen seasons of 'exceeded expectations' followed-up with 'did not meet expectations'. It isn't just the Flames - plenty of teams do this. Vancouver year-to-year lately. Nashville is a good example. Was last season the outlier? Or the baseline?



I guess we will see what Conroy thinks if he trades Andersson for futures and just signs a few depth players. Maybe he adds to the roster significantly. Maybe he subtracts.


There are too many forwards on the team, and ARGUABLY not enough defencemen (depending on what you see in Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Poirier, Brzustewicz, and especially as to how dominant (or not) you see Parekh this upcoming season.

Interesting comparison to 2015 but i think that it looks different this time around. We have far more prospects unfortunately many of them in one position. We also have multiple picks and to my mind still have bodies to move mainly Anderson and Coleman. To me that roughly the end of the rebuild rebuild portion as Huby and Kadri arent going anywhere and Weegs should be team captain.

Multiple picks this year and next so unless Conroy pulls a boner like the he who shsll not be named trade on defence i think we look good.

What concerns me most about our prospects pool is that neither solo or kuz or Poirier have been able to solidify even a bottom pairing role. Not sure any if them are more than tweeners.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Thats an interesting question.

Myself I'm looking for a top 15 pick, or a top center prospect if thats offered I'm breaking a leg to go sign the papers. However i think if that had been offered for any of the players shipped out in the last year the trade would have been made right away. I just dont think anyone is offering a center.

Catton and a second? Let me call you a cab Rasmus thank for your time.

I would be pleasantly surprised if the flames were able to get a top C prospect or a top 15 pick for Andersson. Would love to see it though.

Most teams picking top 15 are in some stage of a rebuild themselves, so they’re unlikely to want to move 1st round picks. The exceptions I think there could be a case for are Nashville, Boston, and the NYR’s. Even though they fell way short of expectations, I doubt Nashville or Boston would find the need to add Andersson compelling enough to part with their picks and what that player could provide in short order. I know I wouldn’t trade a top 7 pick for Andersson.

I could see an exception with the Rangers though. At 12OA, it’s unlikely they’re going to get a player that steps in right away or even next year. They want to compete and compete now. Plus, obviously, they are a cap team and adding Andersson at retained value could still mean something to them. This would of course require an extension to be in place.

Buffalo could be another but I think they are going to be in tough to find players to waive to go there. If they move their picks, I bet it’s for a young player without trade protection. Outside of Wolf or Parekh, I’m not sure who that player would be from the Flames. They would probably ask for Coronato, which is a no from the Flames. Zary? Maybe. If it give the flames a shot at McQueen or O’Brien maybe that’s something they need to consider. At some point the Flames will need to address their logjam at LW.

Detroit? Columbus? Maybe. Even then, if I’m Conroy, I’m only making that move there is a player there (at C), that wouldn’t be there at 18. I wonder about McQueen because of the injury concerns. That said, if 12-13 other teams pass on him, the worse it looks injury wise. Realistically it’s probably more accurate to say 7-8 teams would be passing on him as he’s not going top 5 in any event.

Top C prospects? Those rarely get moved. Callum Ritchie was just one but that also reduces an already thin pool of said C prospects that could be moved. Further that trade is yet another indicator of the risk involved in moving that calibre of player for an older vet. It didn’t payoff for the Avalanche and now they’ve depleted their asset base to the point of being, nearly, stripped bare.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Interesting comparison to 2015 but i think that it looks different this time around. We have far more prospects unfortunately many of them in one position. We also have multiple picks and to my mind still have bodies to move mainly Anderson and Coleman. To me that roughly the end of the rebuild rebuild portion as Huby and Kadri arent going anywhere and Weegs should be team captain.

Multiple picks this year and next so unless Conroy pulls a boner like the he who shsll not be named trade on defence i think we look good.

What concerns me most about our prospects pool is that neither solo or kuz or Poirier have been able to solidify even a bottom pairing role. Not sure any if them are more than tweeners.

I actually think you could paint the picture that 2015 was looking better. I think we had more ‘upside’ players in theory then. At that time it looked like we had our top 2 C’s for the next 10 years plus. A rookie scoring phenom, D pairing that could dominate a game, selke candidate level C in his prime and plenty of picks.

2025 Flames are probably closer to 2013 flames.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I am one of the people who thinks the Flames have one of the least top to bottom talented teams in the NHL and expect a large regression next season and a bottom 7 finish

However - if you can get a player of Marners quality at his age for nothing but money you do it 10/10 times

I think there’s zero chance he comes here, but players his caliber almost never hit UFA

The problem I have with adding Marner isn't adding Marner and his contract. It's what happens next.

I would love to see the Flames next season with Marner and Parekh added. The impact could be significant. Look at Lane Hutson in Montreal, they made the playoffs after being a bottom team with an impact rookie like that.

The difference for me is Montreal's core is very young. Their best players are very young. The Flames are not adding Marner and then trading Rasmus. If the resign Rasmus and sign Marner, this team could be good, but I doubt its cup contending calibre with way too many 30+ guys being part of the reason why this team is good. Our success would be short lived.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I actually think you could paint the picture that 2015 was looking better. I think we had more ‘upside’ players in theory then. At that time it looked like we had our top 2 C’s for the next 10 years plus. A rookie scoring phenom, D pairing that could dominate a game, selke candidate level C in his prime and plenty of picks.

2025 Flames are probably closer to 2013 flames.

I agree. People criticize Treliving for the summer of 2015 but what did he do? He traded for a 22-year-old dman who was coming off a 40-point season and is 6 foot 6 230lbs and a good skating offensive dman with lots of skill. Sure, it didn't work out but there was reason to believe Dougie would be a franchise dman similar to Hedman. His game never progressed on the defensive end, but with that size and skating at that age most GMs would have projected him to be that kind of dman.

Brodie and Gio were 25 and 30
Gaudreau and Monahan were 21 and 19

Sven looked to be a star in the making

We had 18-year-old Sam Bennett who was being projected as a franchise center.

If you are building a franchise and you have 2 top 6 centers with 1 being projected to be franchise calibre and young franchise dman to go with an already top pairing like Gio and Brodie looked to be. I would say 2015 is further along than now. This team now has more depth a prospect but missing these key prospects at center

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I agree. People criticize Treliving for the summer of 2015 but what did he do? He traded for a 22-year-old dman who was coming off a 40-point season and is 6 foot 6 230lbs and a good skating offensive dman with lots of skill. Sure, it didn't work out but there was reason to believe Dougie would be a franchise dman similar to Hedman. His game never progressed on the defensive end, but with that size and skating at that age most GMs would have projected him to be that kind of dman.

Brodie and Gio were 25 and 30
Gaudreau and Monahan were 21 and 19

Sven looked to be a star in the making

We had 18-year-old Sam Bennett who was being projected as a franchise center.

If you are building a franchise and you have 2 top 6 centers with 1 being projected to be franchise calibre and young franchise dman to go with an already top pairing like Gio and Brodie looked to be. I would say 2015 is further along than now. This team now has more depth a prospect but missing these key prospects at center

I don't think many complained about the Hamilton trade, it was the Hamonic trade which was the big mistake.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The problem I have with adding Marner isn't adding Marner and his contract. It's what happens next.

I would love to see the Flames next season with Marner and Parekh added. The impact could be significant. Look at Lane Hutson in Montreal, they made the playoffs after being a bottom team with an impact rookie like that.

The difference for me is Montreal's core is very young. Their best players are very young. The Flames are not adding Marner and then trading Rasmus. If the resign Rasmus and sign Marner, this team could be good, but I doubt its cup contending calibre with way too many 30+ guys being part of the reason why this team is good. Our success would be short lived.

This is the problem. The Flames were carried by guys mostly over 30. The Habs were carried by guys mostly under 25. Similar results in isolation but moving forward every GM is taking the Habs roster over the Flames to build around. If the Flames go big game hunting I think that is extremely risky. I'm doubtful any of the big fish would want to sign here but even that mindset is worrisome. That seem like the perfect recipe for mushy middle for the foreseeable future.

I see the team taking a step back next year and I honestly believe that is for the best. I hope they don't make any bad signings and just stay patient. Continue to draft and develop and see what you actually have in the system.

[Badgers Nose]

Kenya is hot this time of year, but if shooting lions brings the team together then I am all for it.

[traptor]

I felt way more optimistic about 2015 for some reason.

I guess it felt like we had more elite talent in the system.

We had two top drafted centers, Gaudreau, the Dougie trade, and although we didn't have Wolf, we had some young promising options in net.

People complain that wasn't a rebuild, but it felt closer to one then this does.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Kenya is hot this time of year, but if shooting lions brings the team together then I am all for it.

Wow, be careful what you say there are some people who will get mighty upset at the idea of bringing anything non positive on a pride.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yeah I think we could call it fine tuning. There's soft spots in the top 6 FW group they could swap around. And 1 top line player has a cascading effect down the line up as it pushes other players into more acute spots for their talents.

I.e sign Marner and Pospisil is shuffled down to the 4th line.
He doesn't need to be in the top 9 to be effective for his talents.

And even then I believe they can make trades with other forwards to bring a bit more scoring.

The forward group needs work. We have some good kids coming along and some vets who are on the wrong side of the peak in Backlund andaybe Coleman.

Sprinkle on top of that some added offense from BRZ and Parekh in the very near future it's pretty easy to see team offense improving immediately if they signed one top line player.

Which makes think about a potential Andersson trade, what's their real.goal terms of what they get back for him? More futures?

I agree with the premise that we need a top line player right away. However, I really believe that the focus has to be on a #1C. There are solid winger and D prospects in the system that can start graduating but a #1C is required to bump Kadri, Frost, and Backlund down the lineup.

Center depth is much more the critical path of the team than bringing in Marner to push Pospisil down to the 4th line. Coronato, Gridin, and Klapka will potentially do that in the next couple of seasons anyway.

If we get a #1C prospect that needs time to develop then you can start out this season with Kadri, Frost, Backlund, Zary, <Prospect>. Then let the prospect pass each of the other centers as they develop. The goal would be to get the C group to look like this in a couple of seasons: <Prospect>, Frost, Kadri, Zary.

To answer the other question, all of our trade assets and draft capital need to be pointed at one thing, acquiring that future #1C. Tanking to draft that player might be the most straightforward way to get that, but trading for the pick/player is the other way to go. At this point of the retool we should identify a handful of assets that are untradable (Wolf, Parekh, Coronato, 2026 1st, 2027 1st) and then figure out how to utilize everything else to get that needed top line C.

I would hope that it is as simple as the Sharks wanting assets we have available like Andersson to get the job done. Failing that, maybe a Burke style multi-trade to climb up the draft.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

You know, if Treliving is still our GM, I will not be surprised he'd throw $18M x 7 at Marner. That's why I'm so glad he is no longer our GM.

I find this comment funny, since Treleving is, you know, the GM of Toronto who will quite possibly be letting Marner go to free agency.

[cannon7]

Marner might be able to get Huberdeau back into point per game territory. But do those two as the Flames' #1 and #2 get them into the playoffs?