[Rumour] Dailyfaceoff: Flames might go big game hunting this summer

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Flames were far more interested in Rantannen at the time than they are of Marner this summer.

Which team wouldn't be?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We don't get those years though.

In 4 years, when we are (hopefully) competitive, Marner will be 32 and is likely to be no better than a PPG player. Small, PPG (worth maybe $8-9M) and getting $14

Absolutely terrible signing, IMO.

He is small like Kucherov. Kucherov appears to have been able to produce in his 30’s.

[Manhattanboy]

Nm

[Aarongavey]

The math on Marner is pretty simple for the Flames.

This offseason they have 27 million in space. They have 9 forwards under contract (need to sign Zary, Frost and Klapka), they have 6 dmen under contract (need to sign Bahl).

If they sign Marner for 13.5, they have 13.5 to sign Zary, Frost, Klapka, Bahl. If those guys cost a combined 12.5 million they would have a million to sign two other forwards.

Next offseason if they spent 27 million this offseason that was on the books for 26/27 they would have 27 million and need to sign Wolf and Pospisil and replace 3 dmen, a backup goalie and two forwards. Point is they have more than enough cap room to sign a stud like Marner and sign their young forwards longterm if they want to.

That would be without moving any salary out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Kucherov is one of the best offensive players of this generation. Marner is not.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Kucherov is one of the best offensive players of this generation. Marner is not.

Just because one dude is a cut above doesn't diminish the other guy's ability. As someone else already pointed out, Marner has five seasons in a row playing at at or above 100pts/82gm pace, and two other seasons above 90/82. He's one of the best offensive players in the league in addition to being one of the better defensive forwards.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Mitch Marner as a 50 point guy LOL. He has much more consistent production than Huberdeau ever did. His last 5 years pro rated for 82 games are

24/25 - 103 points
23/24 - 101 points
22/23 - 101 points
21/22 - 110 points
20/21 - 100 points

Mitch Marner would play well on a team that may have generational offensive talent on the backend. If a team had an elite offensive dman who would join the rush and has scored at every level that guy would completely pop with Marner. Marner would also play well with any shooter that has a great shot (Coronato, Sharnagovich) probably being able to set those guys up as well. Marner would also provide a major boost for the powerplay. When you add that he is arguably the best defensive winger in the NHL it seems like a no brainer to at least try to get him.

If you can't see that Marner's totals are inflated due to playing with Matthews & Nylander, I don't know what to tell you.

Parekh might become a Hughes or Makar level defenseman, then again he might not. You can't just assume he will, and build a team around that assumption. Besides, if Parekh is as good as you say he is, any player brought in will benefit from playing with him.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Kucherov is one of the best offensive players of this generation. Marner is not.

Marner would be my number one free agent target. That fact that he would help the Flames win a bunch more games and prevent a tank job is just a side benefit. He is an elite talent.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by prizefighterinferno

Just because one dude is a cut above doesn't diminish the other guy's ability. As someone else already pointed out, Marner has five seasons in a row playing at at or above 100pts/82gm pace, and two other seasons above 90/82. He's one of the best offensive players in the league in addition to being one of the better defensive forwards.

He just compared a guy who is putting up points the likes we haven't seen since the 90's with the leagues best in McDavid and MacKinnon.

Marner is not being diminished but he isn't in Kucherov category because they are the same size. He also has 171 points in 152 playoff games.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Marner would be my number one free agent target. That fact that he would help the Flames win a bunch more games and prevent a tank job is just a side benefit. He is an elite talent.

I know you love 8th place wild card finishes, and getting dummied in the playoffs but that isn't for everyone. A little pain for long term gain is much better.

Last place or last wild card all they will do is extend their season by 8 days and sit at home like the rest of us watch the playoffs.

[Mathgod]

Huberdeau's last 5 years in Florida, pro-rated for 82 games

21/22 - 118 points
20/21 - 91 points
19/20 - 93 points
18/19 - 92 points
17/18 - 69 points (he was still developing as a player)

So yes, Marner's totals are a bit higher. But again look at who he's been playing with.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I know you love 8th place wild card finishes, and getting dummied in the playoffs but that isn't for everyone. A little pain for long term gain is much better.

Last place or last wild card all they will do is extend their season by 8 days and sit at home like the rest of us watch the playoffs.

Maybe they will decide to be like Carolina and just be good.

[Fan69]

Personally think signing a winger, almost any winger, is poor long term strategy.

We currently have 4 of 8 wing positions locked up long term. 2 of those on over 30 players. Signing marner makes 5 of 8. We have a glut of really good wing prospects coming up and both your over thirty wings are on the left where we are deepest.

So we go into camp next and say klpaka starts the year like he ended it? And not only that but basha kicks the door in at camp and battaglia is right behind him? Honzek made the team last year you can see where im going with this.

Left D or a top line center is the only thing we should be investing any assets toward.

Cant ever say i have loved so many of our prospects stromgren has a case, the battaglia signing kind if went unnoticed, i am a big I Dar Suniev! Fan.

One of these great young prospects will probably be traded for a center and whiever it is i will be sad to see them go.

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Huberdeau's last 5 years in Florida, pro-rated for 82 games

21/22 - 118 points
20/21 - 91 points
19/20 - 93 points
18/19 - 92 points
17/18 - 69 points (he was still developing as a player)

So yes, Marner's totals are a bit higher. But again look at who he's been playing with.

Trying to draw conclusions about about what is likely to happen to Marner's production at his next stop by drawing on Huberdeau's career stats and NHL record fall-off between FLA/CGY is, to put it mildly, flawed reasoning.

I get that you guys don't think he's worth the money that's being thrown around here and are using Huby as a cautionary tale of sorts but let's not twist ourselves in knots trying to make a point.

[Manhattanboy]

Vegas fans can’t be happy with their big gamers.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Personally think signing a winger, almost any winger, is poor long term strategy.

We currently have 4 of 8 wing positions locked up long term. 2 of those on over 30 players. Signing marner makes 5 of 8. We have a glut of really good wing prospects coming up and both your over thirty wings are on the left where we are deepest.

So we go into camp next and say klpaka starts the year like he ended it? And not only that but basha kicks the door in at camp and battaglia is right behind him? Honzek made the team last year you can see where im going with this.

Left D or a top line center is the only thing we should be investing any assets toward.

Cant ever say i have loved so many of our prospects stromgren has a case, the battaglia signing kind if went unnoticed, i am a big I Dar Suniev! Fan.

One of these great young prospects will probably be traded for a center and whiever it is i will be sad to see them go.

This is a pretty good argument for staying the course instead of tying up 14M+ of cap space on another Huberdeau.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by prizefighterinferno

Trying to draw conclusions about about what is likely to happen to Marner's production at his next stop by drawing on Huberdeau's career stats and NHL record fall-off between FLA/CGY is, to put it mildly, flawed reasoning.

I get that you guys don't think he's worth the money that's being thrown around here and are using Huby as a cautionary tale of sorts but let's not twist ourselves in knots trying to make a point.

I posted that in refutation of the idea of "Marner has been a much more consistent producer than Huby and will benefit massively from Parekh".

Before you accuse me of flawed reasoning, please make sure you're not misrepresenting what I said.

Here's my entire argument summarized:

- Marner is a pass-first, assist-heavy producer. He's not a sniper and he's not known for his goal scoring. And he has benefited greatly from playing with Matthews, Nylander, Tavares.

- The Flames aren't lacking in good passers. They are lacking in finishers. Adding another skilled passer won't solve the team's scoring issues.

- $14M+ for 7 years would be a huge risk.

- It might be better to try and bring someone in who can gel with Huberdeau and convert his great passes into goals.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I posted that in refutation of the idea of "Marner has been a much more consistent producer than Huby and will benefit massively from Parekh".

Before you accuse me of flawed reasoning, please make sure you're not misrepresenting what I said.

Here's my entire argument summarized:

- Marner is a pass-first, assist-heavy producer. He's not a sniper and he's not known for his goal scoring. And he has benefited greatly from playing with Matthews, Nylander, Tavares.

- The Flames aren't lacking in good passers. They are lacking in finishers. Adding another skilled passer won't solve the team's scoring issues.

- $14M+ for 7 years would be a huge risk.

- It might be better to try and bring someone in who can gel with Huberdeau and convert his great passes into goals.

Saying Marner isn't a goal scorer is the same as saying Johnny Gaudreau or Patrick Kane weren't goal scorers.

They're very similar players who draw attention from other players, and play to their linemates' strengths because of how well they read the game. They can break games open, whether that's through a perfect pass or a goal. Marner "only" has a career high of 35 goals in the NHL, because Matthews has been the trigger man on his line, but he has a fantastic, incredibly accurate shot and will put up 40 in the right spot...

There's obvious risk with any top end player but don't diminish his skills. The guy is a game breaker.

Again, I'm not advocating for the Flames to sign him, but he is the type of player that can change the makeup of a lineup in a very good way.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Anaheim or LA seems like the best fit for Marner. With one of the best coaches of all time talking about Anaheim reminding him of Chicago before they took off he could be a piece they go after.

[Manhattanboy]

Watch Johnny’s video from the NHL quarter century team. I think he was far more talented than Marner.