Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Fuzz]

Trump either stole the election, or Americans in general are far dumber than we gave them credit for. I could have been convinced the former in November, but now I'm firmly in the latter camp. So you don't require a stolen election to get Trump. You just need to decrease your "faith in humanity" slider.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by WideReceiver

I’m no conspiracy theorist but that election was stolen. I don’t know how but no way Trump won that legitimately.

I dont think that election was not stolen. Too many people figured Trump was just saying stuff when he he actually was going to do it. Also the DNP essentially ran their version of Crystia Freelund at the height of anti-incumbent sentiment. So between not enough on the fence voters not going against Trump and some less enthusiastic Trump supporters being conned into thinking it wont be that bad...thats how they got that redult.

Poilievre and the Conservatives in Canada wish they had been so lucky. This could end up as another minority but that would be because B.C. goes NDP at the last minute and Quebec also goes back to the BQ.

[simmer2]

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

[Fuzz]

Is cutting consultants for required work necessarily good? Does that mean he'll bring that stuff back in government, expanding he public service and associated long term costs? Or do you just assume Pierre knows he can cut 10B and nothing of value will be lost? I mean, I guess that's possible, but I have to imagine at least some of it is beneficial work being done.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by simmer2

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

Well, go find your Martyrdom elsewhere. Nobody cares.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by simmer2

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

So what do these consultants do that is a waste of time? Are you going to increase the size of the public service to compensate? It would be tough to say we go no value for the 10 billion so what services of the government get cut with that statement?

And are you spending that money elsewhere in terms of tax cuts or are we cutting spending during a recession to reduce the deficit which we know makes recessions worse?

I agree in general with the concept of reducing contracted labour and instead bringing that expertise in house where it is required but you can’t just say 10 billion in savings without saying what you cut.

[indes]

Originally Posted by simmer2

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

How could you say this without knowing what he's cutting or what the consultants do? This is exactly like DOGE cutting the nuclear scientists who manage their nuclear arsenal. "I'm going to cut 30% of my household spending!" - "That's just common sense!". "Why is your house getting foreclosed?"

[Fuzz]

There are areas where consultants make sense, like if you have a one time project you don't have government expertise for, and don't anticipate needing it in the long term, it may make sense to consult vs setting up a department for one project.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There are areas where consultants make sense, like if you have a one time project you don't have government expertise for, and don't anticipate needing it in the long term, it may make sense to consult vs setting up a department for one project.

Absolutely. Welcome to 2025 where "common sense" is assuming every dollar the government spends is a waste of money lol. Even after watching the gong show down south.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by WideReceiver

I’m no conspiracy theorist but that election was stolen. I don’t know how but no way Trump won that legitimately.

So was the 2020 election stolen by Biden?

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by simmer2

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

Randomly cutting a cost so it matches an arbitrary time in history doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What do these consultants do? We've seen the mess random slashing of budgets is doing in the US. Common sense tells me don't copy that.

Trump was the perfect candidate for the Republicans. He's got the appeal (I don't get it, but he does) and he can push through a bunch of things that they pretend to be upset about. The US agenda is definitely not just the Trump agenda. He's a useful prop for a lot of powerful people.

And my social studies teacher in high school, back in the last century, said we were under threat from the US as soon as they needed our resources, so I'm not at all surprised with their current threats.

I will set a good example for any kids who may be around that I can think for myself and don't just shut up when some bully tells me to. If your opinions are solid, they should stand on their own merit.

[undercoverbrother]

Trump didn't steal the election in 2024, nor did Biden steal 2020.

The Americans got the government the wanted and deserve.

Stop using things like stolen elections to hide that the US is sliding away from democracy.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Poilievre and the Conservatives spending years calling for Trudeau to resign and an election to be called only to be caught off guard by Trudeau resigning and an election being called really does speak volumes about him and the party as a whole. They just aren’t very good.

We are a week away from the elections and Conservatives don't have a costed platform.

It's amateur hour over there.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There are areas where consultants make sense, like if you have a one time project you don't have government expertise for, and don't anticipate needing it in the long term, it may make sense to consult vs setting up a department for one project.

Exactly this. You need outside consultancy for things like the Phoenix payroll system or else projects go off the rails.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by GGG

So what do these consultants do that is a waste of time? Are you going to increase the size of the public service to compensate? It would be tough to say we go no value for the 10 billion so what services of the government get cut with that statement?

And are you spending that money elsewhere in terms of tax cuts or are we cutting spending during a recession to reduce the deficit which we know makes recessions worse?

I agree in general with the concept of reducing contracted labour and instead bringing that expertise in house where it is required but you can’t just say 10 billion in savings without saying what you cut.

Has anyone here actually worked with these types of consultants? If you have, you'd know how embarrassing it is that the government is spending this much money on them.

They're glorified project managers, but instead of being at the company and understanding the industries or processes, they only have a very high level understanding. All they do is create tracking sheets and dashboards with zero actual value addition on what needs to get done for a successful project, but higher levels see the pretty dashboards and go "oooh!".

This should be the easiest spending cut in the history of spending cuts. It's gotten so dumb that our previous idiot Prime Minister literally hired consultants to provide advice about saving money on consultants.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...mg-consulting/

[CliffFletcher]

Often consultants are just civil servants who have ‘retired’ but carry on with their jobs in a contract role. It’s a way for the government to ensure the work continues to get done without taking on the benefits and pension costs of a new hire.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GGG

So what do these consultants do that is a waste of time? Are you going to increase the size of the public service to compensate? It would be tough to say we go no value for the 10 billion so what services of the government get cut with that statement?

And are you spending that money elsewhere in terms of tax cuts or are we cutting spending during a recession to reduce the deficit which we know makes recessions worse?

I agree in general with the concept of reducing contracted labour and instead bringing that expertise in house where it is required but you can’t just say 10 billion in savings without saying what you cut.

The value proposition isn't zero but it might be pretty low.

Overall, across the 97 contracts awarded to McKinsey & Company, we found frequent disregard for procurement policies and guidance and that contracting practices often did not demonstrate value for money. The extent of non‑compliance varied across organizations. However, 9 out of 10 departments and agencies and 8 out of 10 Crown corporations failed to properly follow all aspects of their procurement policies and guidance on at least 1 contract.

In 10 of the 28 contracts that were awarded through a competitive process, we found that bid evaluations did not include enough information to support the selection of McKinsey & Company as the winning bidder. In addition, in 18 of the 19 contracts issued under the national master standing offer with McKinsey & Company, organizations did not provide the required justification for using a non‑competitive process. We also found 4 series of contracts where, after awarding an initial contract to McKinsey & Company with no competition, organizations subsequently awarded additional non‑competitive contracts for related work. For 4 other series, only the initial contract was awarded competitively. In total, these 8 series represent 30 contracts with a total value of approximately $58 million.

In 19 of the 33 contracts included in our representative sample, we found one or more issues that prevented organizations from demonstrating that the contracts had delivered value for the money. The risks to value for money varied across federal organizations, and issues included a failure to show why a contract was necessary, no clear statement of what the contract would deliver, or no confirmation that the government received all expected deliverables...

We found that organizations did not receive all deliverables listed in the contracts for 6 (18%) out of 33 contracts. For 5 other contracts, we found that the statement of work was not specific enough for us to assess whether what was delivered was consistent with the contract requirements.

https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/E...5_e_44492.html

[Fuzz]

I think putting all consultants in one basket, and pointing at potentially bad ones as a reason to get rid of all of them is just the type of thing low IQ politicians and pundits love to do, but it is not beneficial to Canadians. Why is it so hard to recognize some good/some bad?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Trump didn't steal the election in 2024, nor did Biden steal 2020.

The Americans got the government the wanted and deserve.

Stop using things like stolen elections to hide that the US is sliding away from democracy.

It really depends on the definition of 'stole'. The Trump win was predicated on false information and conspiracy theories spread through social media by far right bots, many (most?) of which are controlled by Russia or other enemies of western democracies. Musk also had a huge influence with Twitter. Is the richest man in the world pouring hundreds or millions or billions into influencing the outcome of elections for his own gain 'stealing' the election?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by simmer2

PP pledging to cut 10B in consultants...down to pre-Liberal levels. Seems like a common sense thing to me. But I'm sure my Liberal friends on here will find many ways to justify wasteful spending as a good thing.

And re Trump. I don't like him. Hard to believe he's the best candidate Republicans have. But also watch what he does versus listen to what he says. He says lots of things. I'll eat crow if he 'invades Canada', but I don't buy it. He's a bully who says things to try and get his way.

Anyways, feel free to set good examples for your kids and call me pathetic and gutless. Tell your kids about how you felt better calling a random person a name because they happened to not agree with your stance.

That $10bn is just a made up number though. No one actually thinks that he's going to find $10bn in savings, and there is nothing detailed about that.

By the way, I don't think that you're gutless or pathetic and respect the fact that you just support the "other party". I think that's good for democracy and it's good to be able to discuss these things. What I do think, is that you aren't applying the same tests for the CPC platform as you are to the Liberals.