Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You make it sound like he's a billionaire avoiding paying his own taxes. That's not what happened. He worked for a company, and did his job within the rule of the law for that company.

Exactly. It’s so stupid.

“Carney follows the rules and in every instance has done his job to the best of his abilities, in the best interest of his employer… how do we know he’ll do the job to the best of his abilities in the best interest of his employer this time???”

I assume it’s just accidental ignorance on EE’s part because the Edward’s comparison is bizarre.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Edwards moves himself out of Canada, but CNRL, Ensign etc are all atill headquartered here and pay taxes here.

Under Carney's watch Brookfield moved to the US, taking taxes and jobs with it. It isn't obvious to me that's way better than Edwards.

Edwards owns those companies, Carney was an employee. And is Carney holding a city hostage for tax dollars to pay for his hobby, all the while gaining in real value? I don't have time in my life to defend the honour of billionaires who don't give back to the country that made them wealthy. These are two totally different people. I'm surprised this even needs to be discussed.

[GirlySports]

Yes, Carney was just an employee.

Even Singh's accusation that Carney ran 'renovictions' and contributing to the housing problem is a better argument than comparing Carney to billionaires, but Carney still was just an employee doing what his bosses wanted.

[Street Pharmacist]

Brookfield did not move to New York to save taxes. That's stupid. They wouldn't have moved to a high tax state of that were the case.

Why would an Investment company move to the financial capital of the world.....

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Brookfield did not move to New York to save taxes. That's stupid. They wouldn't have moved to a high tax state of that were the case.

Why would an Investment company move to the financial capital of the world.....

Yeah...its a mystery...

[indes]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Brookfield did not move to New York to save taxes. That's stupid. They wouldn't have moved to a high tax state of that were the case.

Why would an Investment company move to the financial capital of the world.....

Chem trails and WEF...I've said too much already.

[puckedoff]

I find it hard to believe that with Carney in charge, and essentially all the same ministers that Trudeau had the Liberals will finally find to fortitude to build infrastructure, export facilities, and support Canadian exports.

I get that he is an educated guy, but after the past decade watching the Liberals cause what looked like intentional damage to the confidence in Canada being a good jurisdiction to invest in I really don't think his ministers and base will be on board with actually getting things done. Ultimately if/when Carney wins, I expect they will remain beholden to the environmental base and we will be just as reliant on the US as ever before.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I find it hard to believe that with Carney in charge, and essentially all the same ministers that Trudeau had the Liberals will finally find to fortitude to build infrastructure, export facilities, and support Canadian exports.

I get that he is an educated guy, but after the past decade watching the Liberals cause what looked like intentional damage to the confidence in Canada being a good jurisdiction to invest in I really don't think his ministers and base will be on board with actually getting things done. Ultimately if/when Carney wins, I expect they will remain beholden to the environmental base and we will be just as reliant on the US as ever before.

They’ve already shown that they are different with new leadership. The direction is different. The tone is different.

Ever been in a business that did not change when the General Manager / President changed? Ever seen a hockey team not change when the coach changed, even with the same players?

Leadership matters

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Ever seen a hockey team not change when the coach changed, even with the same players?

Leadership matters

How many coaches and GMs have the Oilers gone through over the last ten years?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

How many coaches and GMs have the Oilers gone through over the last ten years?

10 years ago, the Oilers were 3rd last in regular season points.

Last year they were in the Stanley Cup finals.

Do you think they are the exact same as they were 10 years ago?

Did they play the same with Tippett as coach as they did with Woodcroft and now Knoblauch (yes I had to look up the names of their coaches as I remembered their style changing but didn’t care who the coaches were).

Don’t let your hatred of the Oilers ruin the point. Leaders shape their organization and how they operate. Businesses, governments, teams can turn on a dime with new direction - just as we have seen with the change from idealistic Justin to experienced Carney.

[Roughneck]

At a low point ten years ago, a rotating door of leadership since, reaching their peak with their golden boy in 2024 and everybody predicting them to win it all this year only to see things get pretty shaky as we enter the spring.


The Conservatives seem a lot more like the Oilers than anybody else, if that's the analogy we want to go with.

[sa226]

I suppose it shows some of the effectiveness of the right wing messaging that we're somehow comparing Carney with Edward's.

Aside from being successful, they couldn't be more different.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I find it hard to believe that with Carney in charge, and essentially all the same ministers that Trudeau had the Liberals will finally find to fortitude to build infrastructure, export facilities, and support Canadian exports.

I get that he is an educated guy, but after the past decade watching the Liberals cause what looked like intentional damage to the confidence in Canada being a good jurisdiction to invest in I really don't think his ministers and base will be on board with actually getting things done. Ultimately if/when Carney wins, I expect they will remain beholden to the environmental base and we will be just as reliant on the US as ever before.

Of all the anti Carney posts and rhetoric out there; I do find this position to at least be a reasonable concern.

I'm in the camp that thinks a leader can changed the party, but at least your positioning comes from place of logic, not conspiracy theories and fake news.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Brookfield did not move to New York to save taxes. That's stupid. They wouldn't have moved to a high tax state of that were the case.

Why would an Investment company move to the financial capital of the world.....

Sure taxes weren't the main issue (they wanted in the SP500 index) but they used to pay Canadian taxes and now they don't, so that move objectively hurt Canada - probably more than Edward's estate not paying cap gains in a few decades. And saying "he's just an employee" is a bit much - he wouldn't have been sole decision maker but he was Chairman of the Board. It's not like he was at the mid level or something.

Anyway, I think Carney is clearly way better than Trudeau, but this story definitely rhymes with Edwards moving out of Canada.

[GirlySports]

Sure but Canadian sovereignty was never at risk so people, even old minsters under Trudeau, got a wake up call

We knew leading into the US election about tariffs and Trump flaking on trade deals, and immigration and wokeness etcc.... but nobody, even on this board, in the last 10 years ever considered an attack on Canada itself.

We all thought there would be an American civil war first, which still might be.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I find it hard to believe that with Carney in charge, and essentially all the same ministers that Trudeau had the Liberals will finally find to fortitude to build infrastructure, export facilities, and support Canadian exports.

I get that he is an educated guy, but after the past decade watching the Liberals cause what looked like intentional damage to the confidence in Canada being a good jurisdiction to invest in I really don't think his ministers and base will be on board with actually getting things done. Ultimately if/when Carney wins, I expect they will remain beholden to the environmental base and we will be just as reliant on the US as ever before.

CPC under Poilievre is remarkedly different than it was under O'Toole or Harper. Harper kept a strong muzzle on the social conservative branch and it allowed them to govern. Same thing with Smith instead Kenney. Somehow, the UPC got infinitely worse with Smith.

I see the same in Carney with the Liberals. Liberals under Trudeau was an ideological mess that rarely differentiated itself from the champagne socialist NDP, pretty much formed a coalition of destructive ideology regardless of damage imposed on Canadians and absolutely deserved to be kicked to the curb. I was very dubious, and still am of Liberals with a different leader of special interest agendas and corruption that were prevalent, but most of the moves and policies are very different than what a Trudeau led party did and are generally of center of right variety, and if you are to go solely by leader, Carney is by far the best option for Canadians right now. If you want a fiscal conservative but social progressive solution (the fabled quadrant) that most closely resembles the Chretien / Martin Liberals / Old PC party, Carney is the closest to it while Poilievre is getting too close to the MAGA sun.

Much like how people flocked to the CPC not because of Poilievre, but because the Liberal-NDP coalition was just that destructive, people are flocking away from the CPC because of Poilievre's lack of leadership facing tariffs that is currently present with Carney / Liberals.

Parties are a bit of a fiefdom.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I know this place is an echo chamber for left leaning folks but I just don't get the love for Carney. The guy weaseled out of paying billions in taxes that would help this country's services. People here dog Edwards for moving out of Canada to avoid taxes and asking for tax handouts but don him in Liberal attire and he's all of a sudden got Canadian's best interested in mind? Kind of rubs me the wrong way. Seems like a really greasy guy to me and maybe he's the best of the alternatives but that just goes to show how sad a political state we are in today.

are you that dumb? You think he is a multi-billionaire? lol

Now do Pollyever. lol. what has he done to benefit Canada?

Listening to him speak about the "lost liberal decade" is like a parrot repeating Republican talking points.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s really that simple for me. If the conservatives had anything close to his demeanour I’d vote for them 100%.

LOL if the 2020s conservatives didn't turn into a party of deplorable racist morons, Carney would prob run as a Conservative than a Liberal. and yes I would vote for him if he was a Con.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Sure taxes weren't the main issue (they wanted in the SP500 index) but they used to pay Canadian taxes and now they don't, so that move objectively hurt Canada - probably more than Edward's estate not paying cap gains in a few decades. And saying "he's just an employee" is a bit much - he wouldn't have been sole decision maker but he was Chairman of the Board. It's not like he was at the mid level or something.

Anyway, I think Carney is clearly way better than Trudeau, but this story definitely rhymes with Edwards moving out of Canada.

Right, but his duty is to shareholders. Unfortunately our corporate economic ssytem doesn't care about what is morally good. So he could have objected on his own personal moral grounds, but then he'd be fired for not doing what is in the best interest of the company. He could have quit, and someone else would have done it. I guess I just don't see blaming someone for doing their job and not breaking any laws as reprehensible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I find it hard to believe that with Carney in charge, and essentially all the same ministers that Trudeau had the Liberals will finally find to fortitude to build infrastructure, export facilities, and support Canadian exports.

I get that he is an educated guy, but after the past decade watching the Liberals cause what looked like intentional damage to the confidence in Canada being a good jurisdiction to invest in I really don't think his ministers and base will be on board with actually getting things done. Ultimately if/when Carney wins, I expect they will remain beholden to the environmental base and we will be just as reliant on the US as ever before.

I don't buy the premise. The stock markets in Canada generally perform marginally better under Liberal governments than Conservative. Including Trudeau's.

https://www.edwardjones.ca/ca-en/mar...markets-impact