[Trade] Sens trade Norris and Bernard Docker to Sabres for Cozens, Gilbert, 2026 2nd

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon Surfer

How so? Any claim needs a reasonably sized data set to have a point, before that it is just noise.
eg) Mark Jankowski is scoring at a goal per game pace in Carolina since that trade.

I think the need to be slow and analytically challenge our own beliefs is especially important for situations where we have an emotional response (eg thinking something is outrageous). Emotions cloud our judgments and create intellectual blind spots.

Whoa, just looked that up, and he's done that with only 10 mins of ice time per night. Maybe Jankowski is finally the best player from his draft year now that he's in Carolina.

[This post is terrible]

Originally Posted by Bingo

and I like Cousins!

That’s because they’re so darn attractive

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by This post is terrible

That’s because they’re so darn attractive

Bingo is from Edmonton????

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I always get a kick out of those that rush to quick "I told you so's" with a minute sample size.

(and I like Cousins!)

Just for the record, my post wasn't an "I told you so", but rather, a question around whether or not the Reinhart nightmare is going to replay itself with Cozens in Ottawa, and how seemingly every Sabre that leaves for another team tends to turn things around. I was never really leaning on either side of the debate around whether or not the Flames should try and get Cozens and how he'd turn out...

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I always get a kick out of those that rush to quick "I told you so's" with a minute sample size.

(and I like Cousins!)

Like him so much you spell his name properly!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Just for the record, my post wasn't an "I told you so", but rather, a question around whether or not the Reinhart nightmare is going to replay itself with Cozens in Ottawa, and how seemingly every Sabre that leaves for another team tends to turn things around. I was never really leaning on either side of the debate around whether or not the Flames should try and get Cozens and how he'd turn out...

The fact that Cozens has played very well in Ottawa (I haven't watched their games) is not proof of his future or his ability. However, the fact that Buffalo has been nothing but a breeding ground for other franchises for the past 10 years is proof that something is rotten in that franchise and history makes me think that it makes the gamble a bit more inticing.

It feels like they are in a continual rebuilding phase with no end in sight and no real plan. It takes a lot to be unable to build a playoff team around Eichel, Reinhart, Thompson, Dahlin, and Ullmark.

If they had kept their 2019-2021 roster together, they would have been phenomenal and easily a playoff team. Instead, they are always looking for success in 3-5 years.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon Surfer

How so? Any claim needs a reasonably sized data set to have a point, before that it is just noise.
eg) Mark Jankowski is scoring at a goal per game pace in Carolina since that trade.

I think the need to be slow and analytically challenge our own beliefs is especially important for situations where we have an emotional response (eg thinking something is outrageous). Emotions cloud our judgments and create intellectual blind spots.

Not a lot of discussion pre trade deadline on Jankowski. If someone said he is ECHL calibre and he's playing well so far, you could say no need to wait to call the poster out.

"Boat Anchor" "40-Point Guy" were claims said when the Flames were after Cozens. Tons of NHL data in his career suggest otheriwse. Not just 6 games.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

When the claims are outrageous, you don't need to wait for more games.

It's not like anyone is saying he's proven he's a franchise center in just 6 games.

He would have to prove he's at least a top line center for this to be a conversation. We don't need to be burning assets and boatloads of long term cap on yet another middle 6 forward.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Type of trade that avoids rebuilds? Lol

So you can stay the same. Cozens isn't a franchise changer, and Ottawa was rolling before him anyways.

The types of trades that can help avoid a rebuild. Not suggesting its the only move needed that changes the course of this franchise. But adding a 24-year-old 6 foot 3 210Lbs center for fairly cheap is something that can change a franchises direction.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Redrum

He would have to prove he's at least a top line center for this to be a conversation. We don't need to be burning assets and boatloads of long term cap on yet another middle 6 forward.

Unfortunately, we didn't have a Norris to give back, but not seeing how Ottawa had to burn assets to make this deal.

What are the odds we draft a top line center with a late 1st or early 2nd?

Are you suggesting Cozens isn't an asset? If he is just a 2nd line center, he can't be traded down the road? How are we burning assets taking a chance on him that he was just unhappy in Buffalo?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The types of trades that can help avoid a rebuild. Not suggesting its the only move needed that changes the course of this franchise. But adding a 24-year-old 6 foot 3 210Lbs center for fairly cheap is something that can change a franchises direction.

Agreed. Luckily the Flames made a similar trade by getting Frost for a fraction of the price. I'm still interested to see if/when Zary and Frost take another step, and how they stack up with Cozens over the next couple of seasons.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Agreed. Luckily the Flames made a similar trade by getting Frost for a fraction of the price. I'm still interested to see if/when Zary and Frost take another step, and how they stack up with Cozens over the next couple of seasons.

I would love to add Cozens and keep Zary or Coronato, but I don't think I would let Zary+ stop me if the + was reasonable.

I like Zary but he's missed a ton of games in the last 5 years. Cozens has missed 5 games in the last 4 years. Cozens is 7 months older and is big and a right-handed center vs Zary who is a maybe center. Cozens is good on faceoffs already and plays physical. He also has 4 PP points this year, gets it all 5 on 5. He is only 4 5 on 5 points behind Kadri who leads the team.

Cozens has 347 games played and has 202 points to Zary's 113 games and 59 points. (looks like more than 6 games of data).

Cozens has 5 more years at $7.1 mil.

Zary is a RFA. His next contract will be a big factor in who I would rather have. We aren't getting him to lock up for that many years for a whole bunch less I bet.

Cozens gives us more options with Kadri who only has 1 year left before we can trade him to 19 different teams.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Rebuilding teams don't make trades for players like that especially giving up futures.

Ottawa has legit 1st liners and need to take a step. The Flames could keep adding to their 2nd and 3rd line and keep flailing around in that 8-11 position and having no assets.

A 5 game sample size for Cozen isn;t enought. He isn;t Reinhart or Eichel level.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Rebuilding teams don't make trades for players like that especially giving up futures.

Ottawa has legit 1st liners and need to take a step. The Flames could keep adding to their 2nd and 3rd line and keep flailing around in that 8-11 position and having no assets.

A 5 game sample size for Cozen isn;t enought. He isn;t Reinhart or Eichel level.

Why not? There is a clear hole in this franchise at center. Cozens in and he probably ranks #1 in the entire franchise.

I get that everyone loves to have a zillion prospects and picks, but we have a ton of good 2nd/3rd line prospects already. Lots won't turn out and when they dob't they are no different than burning assets.

Only so many spots on the team and if you add Cozens for cheap and he does pop, you can ditch Kadri and recover some of the assets and move forward with Cozens and Frost up the middle.

Nothing the Flames have done suggests that they are making a run at McKenna. If that is the plan then sure back off on Cozens, if that is the plan though. Conroy is the GM though so his opinion on how to build the team is more important that the CP posters who want to full rebuild.

I'd love to full rebuild but I don't see it happening to the level some want. You can add Cozens and trade others and make a run at McKenna too, but it looks like we would need a lottery win from a higher spot up in the standings to get him.

If we don't get a top 5 pick in next draft, what's the answer at center?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Redrum

He would have to prove he's at least a top line center for this to be a conversation. We don't need to be burning assets and boatloads of long term cap on yet another middle 6 forward.

A young, currently middle 6 RHS centre, with potential to get better? Yes, yes we do need to use assets to get that.

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Rebuilding teams don't make trades for players like that especially giving up futures.

Except this isn't a rebuild. The team isn't burning to the ground, bottoming out for multiple years, and then hoping to climb out of the ashes of badness.

A re-tooling team that is trying to balance trading out the aging vets that they can, keeping the ones that they must, and having young talent come online and keep the team from bottoming out... that re-tooling team needs to make moves to get better without multiple top 5 or 1OA draft picks.

Cozens would have been a solid pick up for the Flames given the reality of the team not bottoming out this season. I appreciate Conroy's desire to keep Zary but I have a feeling this production increase for Cozens is not just a post-trade bump and that he is starting to show why he went #8OA in his draft. Time will tell.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Wolven

A young, currently middle 6 RHS centre, with potential to get better? Yes, yes we do need to use assets to get that.



Except this isn't a rebuild. The team isn't burning to the ground, bottoming out for multiple years, and then hoping to climb out of the ashes of badness.

A re-tooling team that is trying to balance trading out the aging vets that they can, keeping the ones that they must, and having young talent come online and keep the team from bottoming out... that re-tooling team needs to make moves to get better without multiple top 5 or 1OA draft picks.

Cozens would have been a solid pick up for the Flames given the reality of the team not bottoming out this season. I appreciate Conroy's desire to keep Zary but I have a feeling this production increase for Cozens is not just a post-trade bump and that he is starting to show why he went #8OA in his draft. Time will tell.

Retooling teams usually have something to retool around. Like 1st line players.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Retooling teams usually have something to retool around. Like 1st line players.

Best rookie goalie in the league? probably best in the last decade plus

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I would love to add Cozens and keep Zary or Coronato, but I don't think I would let Zary+ stop me if the + was reasonable.

I like Zary but he's missed a ton of games in the last 5 years. Cozens has missed 5 games in the last 4 years. Cozens is 7 months older and is big and a right-handed center vs Zary who is a maybe center. Cozens is good on faceoffs already and plays physical. He also has 4 PP points this year, gets it all 5 on 5. He is only 4 5 on 5 points behind Kadri who leads the team.

The only major injury and time missed he's had prior to this last one was in 21-22 season where he had an ankle injury. Still played 53/72 games in the AHL.



22-23 Played all 72 games in AHL


23-24 - 6 games AHL, then called up and played 63 in NHL

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Retooling teams usually have something to retool around. Like 1st line players.

Vet NHLers: Kadri, Weegar, Backlund, Huberdeau, Coleman, and maybe Andersson
Young NHLers: Wolf, Coronato, Zary, Frost, Farabee, Bahl
Close prospects: Parekh, Brzustewicz, Gridin, Battaglia, Basha, etc.

However you want to slice and dice it, the Flames have a decent core to work with with a few top tier talent players in there and a number of boom/bust prospects from 2024 that could really surprise us.

There is a small chance that the Flames get into the top 10 of the draft this season and maybe they bottom out next season as the other tanking teams of the West stop being so horrible but there is also a good chance that we are picking in the 20s this draft and the teens next draft.

With that in mind, if you want to build around this core of young NHLers and prospects then you have to swing for the fence on a few key pieces. Cozens fit the bill for one of those gaps as a potential first line C with a right shot.

Now that this ship has sailed, the Flames should be looking for the next opportunity to consolidate a few good assets into a single great asset that addresses the biggest need in the team.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Best rookie goalie in the league? probably best in the last decade plus

I didn't think it needed to be said but you probably need a bit more than that. Like maybe someone that can even pretend to be a first line player which we don't have, nor likely have in the system barring a big time breakout.