Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

But, what they are saying is we need to tank and even you say that the only reason we haven’t bottomed out is because of Wolf. That might even infer that we tried to tank but had even rotten luck with that.
So, logically in order to tank we either need to trade him or his performance needs to fall off a cliff for a year or 3.
Neither of which I advocate by the way, but when Im called delusional for not wanting to tank, I feel compelled to challenge the tankers into going all the way with it and do everything we can to ensure it

We don’t need Wolf to suck for us to tank. The team is clinging on to 9th right now despite being 31st in goals for and 30th ranked PK.

They are in this position because they have played a difficult brand of hockey that requires them to outwork team by a significant margin every night to win. You saw what happened yesterday if they don’t do that.

Guys have bought in but as we know it doesn’t last long when a team has to play this way.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The path forward would be to trade those guys when they are 30 and start the process all over again.

Zero picks should be leaving our organization now. 1st round picks shouldn’t move until the team is a contender.

The middle 6 is filled with players now. The goal should be to chart a way to get elite players 1st line players. Only way to do that is via the draft. He tried to trade for 18-23 year olds but no one is trading those guys unless they are problematic players like a Dach or Cozens.

I'd trade a 1st for Cozens, especially a 1st that is in the 20s.

Draft picks are fun and all but how many years of Wolf's "youth" are you willing to waste playing the "draft pick lotto" hoping one of your many, many, picks turns into a player in 2029?

And it is not just Wolf, you would be wasting years of Coronato, Zary, Bahl, Parekh, Frost, etc.

Then when you finally draft that C and they develop into an NHLer you will have to start complaining about old man Coronato and how signing him at 29 is a crime against asset management.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I'd trade a 1st for Cozens, especially a 1st that is in the 20s.

Draft picks are fun and all but how many years of Wolf's "youth" are you willing to waste playing the "draft pick lotto" hoping one of your many, many, picks turns into a player in 2029?

And it is not just Wolf, you would be wasting years of Coronato, Zary, Bahl, Parekh, Frost, etc.

Then when you finally draft that C and they develop into an NHLer you will have to start complaining about old man Coronato and how signing him at 29 is a crime against asset management.

Elite young players usually produce right away if you draft them at the top of the draft.

Cozens is a bum and the team doesn’t need more projects and 3rd liners. If that’s the path we are on I’d rather keep our picks and go hard after a Marner in feee agency. He comes free and is 27 10x the player Cozens is and is likely to get some offence into our lineup.

I’m starting to think that’s exactly what is going to happen. We are 31st in goals for.

[Jason14h]

Yeah TBH they will / should trade some of those guys before they actually are real contenders if they were honest with themselves .

From drafting a 1st overall it’s usually approx 10 years to win a cup

Very few if any of the players on this team / lineup today will be on the Flames when they are a contender . Teams have huge 5 years turnover in the NHL. Look at the Flames from 5 years ago

That’s why trading for guys 25 years old doesn’t overly make sense unless you are also moving out the 30 plus guys because by the time we are competing they will be exiting their prime

There is no short cutting this or everyone would do it .

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

At this point you are either on "team tank" or "team delusional".

What an unnecessarily insulting thing to say to a large group of people

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yeah TBH they will / should trade some of those guys before they actually are real contenders if they were honest with themselves .

From drafting a 1st overall it’s usually approx 10 years to win a cup

Very few if any of the players on this team / lineup today will be on the Flames when they are a contender . Teams have huge 5 years turnover in the NHL. Look at the Flames from 5 years ago

That’s why trading for guys 25 years old doesn’t overly make sense unless you are also moving out the 30 plus guys because by the time we are competing they will be exiting their prime

There is no short cutting this or everyone would do it .

There is no simple plan like you're pretending there is or everyone would do it and teams wouldn't have failed doing so multiple times.

Crosby won the Cup in his 4th year.
Kane won the Cup in his 3rd year.
Toews won the Cup in his 3rd year.
Doughty won the Cup in his 2nd year.
Kopitar won the Cup in his 6th year.
Quick won the Cup in his 5th year.

I thought that Penguins, Kings, Hawks were the beacons for the few posters that constantly harp about the tear it down rebuild. None took 10 years At least keep the timelines consistent.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Three days ago I didn’t think it would be possible to finish bottom 10 anymore. But right now they’re 1 point out if the playoffs, and merely 3 or 4 depending on tiebreakers out of the bottom 10. It won’t take any determined moves to end up bottom 10 if they keep playing the way they have over the last 10 games either.

Goal differential is already bottom 10, special teams are middling to dog#### (especially the PK), and goals are very hard to come by (bottom 5 offence). Both paths are still extremely wide open.

The Flames last 10 games they are 4-5-1.

On the teams below them they have in general made up 1 point in the last 10 games in the tank race (although they lost a point to the Bruins who are below them). The Flames will have to a heck of a lot worse to complete a tank job to even have a chance to leave Team Delusion.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sure, depending on how they approach the asset after and the lineup flexibility afforded to them after. Hell, the team might even be worse, locking in that top 10 pick.

But, sorry, I get it. RE-SIGN BAD. TRADE GOOD. MAJOR MAD IF NO TRADE.

I get it.

Did you just do Nikki Glazer doing Gronk on a message board with no punchline?

When you're sharing your posts with your Cont Ed creative writing class, you might want to pass over this one.

Cutting enough fat that you need to take some muscle would be a pretty good writing ethos for you to adopt.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Frost and Farabee trade makes a lot more sense in the “plan” if you were able to deal Kadri and Coleman for more picks / prospects . Sending out a 2nd rounder and then recouping picks while not completely gutting the team makes sense for what Conroy has said his goal is

Is you sign Anderson , keep (by choice or not ) Coleman and Kadri , and maybe even move a 1st for another 25 year old to me that’s a horrible plan and no path forward .

Looking for value in deals for mid 20s players is fine , but you have to continue to collect picks and cap flexibility . So far this year we’ve taken on a fair amount of cap and run a pick deficit since the start of the year . That’s not a good formula to get this team to a multi year contender .

The next few moves will show where this team is going

Need to follow the Blackhawks blueprint. They started this season with 3 NHL forwards. Perfect environment for young guys to come in and experience the success they have had. Would Frank Nazar and Reichel have the success they have had if the Hawks had NHL players on their team? Almost certainly not. Same goes for Bedard. Flames just need some bodies who contemplate playing, like the Hawks.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Need to follow the Blackhawks blueprint. They started this season with 3 NHL forwards. Perfect environment for young guys to come in and experience the success they have had. Would Frank Nazar and Reichel have the success they have had if the Hawks had NHL players on their team? Almost certainly not. Same goes for Bedard. Flames just need some bodies who contemplate playing, like the Hawks.

How do we get elite talent up front? First line center? A winger.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Groot

There is no simple plan like you're pretending there is or everyone would do it and teams wouldn't have failed doing so multiple times.

Crosby won the Cup in his 4th year.
Kane won the Cup in his 3rd year.
Toews won the Cup in his 3rd year.
Doughty won the Cup in his 2nd year.
Kopitar won the Cup in his 6th year.
Quick won the Cup in his 5th year.

I thought that Penguins, Kings, Hawks were the beacons for the few posters that constantly harp about the tear it down rebuild. None took 10 years At least keep the timelines consistent.

The Penguins didnt start their rebuild the year they drafted Crosby, it was in 2002 when they drafted 5th (Whitney)

They then drafted 1st and 2nd before getting Crosby ( and then 2nd after getting him)

So it was 8 years after starting their rebuild.

Chicago drafted Toews and Kane in 06 and 07, but the years before were Skille (7th), Barker (3rd), and Seabrooke (14). So they were slightly faster at 6 years

The Kings drafted 4th, 11th and 17th, 11th (And hit hard with Kopitar), 11th and 13th before drafting Doughty. So year 8 of the rebuild.

So these teams were in year 8,8 and 6

This is where saying get guys 25-27 years old doesn't overly fit with the rebuild timeline which historically is 6-8 years best case. If this is year two of the rebuild these guys will be early 30's when the Flames realistically can compete (And those teams above all hit top 3 superstars as well)

There is nothing wrong if the Flames dont want to tear down (I think they should be they can do what they want) However, to rebuild this from the ground up is still going to take 5-7 years if done right.

Unless we believe Kadri, Coleman, Andreson and Hubby are the core we are building around to compete in the next 2 years. And that is insanity.

Don't rush this by trading for guys like Cozens NOW. In 3 years there will be the next Cozens (Or better) avail and if you have drafted well you can trade prospects and future picks at that point. If not you will just have a bunch of late 20-early 30 players getting paid top dollar as you enter your competitive window.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Need to follow the Blackhawks blueprint. They started this season with 3 NHL forwards. Perfect environment for young guys to come in and experience the success they have had. Would Frank Nazar and Reichel have the success they have had if the Hawks had NHL players on their team? Almost certainly not. Same goes for Bedard. Flames just need some bodies who contemplate playing, like the Hawks.

Blackhawks are worried about 2028 and forward, not 2025. They will have another stud prospect to add to their prospects, more picks, and a bunch of young players who come up together and grow together.

You know what creates a winning culture. Winning.

I've already said im fine with the Frost trade IF we also move out (if possible) older guys for more picks/sub 23 year olds.

But if they are to supplement Kadri and Anderson long term as the core we are toast before we start

[dino7c]

All this talk of points away from top 10 ignores games in hand on everyone

[Paulie Walnuts]

We aren’t rebuilding it’s pretty evident. You don’t make the type of trade you did and constantly talk about trading for 25/26 year old players if you are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don’t move picks

We will have to get super lucky.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We don’t need Wolf to suck for us to tank. The team is clinging on to 9th right now despite being 31st in goals for and 30th ranked PK.

They are in this position because they have played a difficult brand of hockey that requires them to outwork team by a significant margin every night to win. You saw what happened yesterday if they don’t do that.

Guys have bought in but as we know it doesn’t last long when a team has to play this way.

Yet you think Huska is a great coach. Thanks for this.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Did you just do Nikki Glazer doing Gronk on a message board with no punchline?

When you're sharing your posts with your Cont Ed creative writing class, you might want to pass over this one.

Cutting enough fat that you need to take some muscle would be a pretty good writing ethos for you to adopt.

This sounded smarter in your head.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet you think Huska is a great coach. Thanks for this.

Expand the bet. When McDavid signs in Edmonton you will get a McDavid Oilers jersey and wear it for us while belting out oh Canada.

[traptor]

Yup they're not rebuilding.


They're speed running the retool.


We had the perfect opportunity to bottom out after the Chucky and Gaudreau departure and before Wolf had emerged. Flames screwed it big time.


Now they're rushing a retool. Could it work out? Sure, but we will need to be very lucky.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Expand the bet. When McDavid signs in Edmonton you will get a McDavid Oilers jersey and wear it for us while belting out oh Canada.

No. I wouldn't make a fellow Flames fan wear an Oilers jersey under any circumstance, no matter what I think of them. I mean if I wanted to be cruel I could say when he signs elsewhere you wear a vintage Kevin Lowe one while doing the same but I refuse to make a Flames fan wear an Oilers jersey.

[Reggie Dunlop]

What's wrong with being mediocre?