Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If inventing a strawman and jumping on a typo makes you feel better about having no good response to a pretty clear and simple argument based on fact, then fill your boots but it’s pretty boring to read.

Saying trading Andersson and not trading Andersson is the same thing is in fact a very simple argument.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Major Major

If only people would stop the pouting, am I right?

You said it!

[TheIronMaiden]

If the Flames want to bottom out they need to trade Wolf.
If they trade Wolf they've lost the plot.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Saying trading Andersson and not trading Andersson is the same thing is in fact a very simple argument.

Yet understanding that both choices can fit the direction/ethos Conroy is approaching the retool with is apparently not quite simple enough for everyone to grasp.

You’ll get ‘em next time.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

After tomorrow's loss, it will be clear what needs to happen. Move on from vets, get any quality futures you can, keep getting younger.

Even that doesn't work with Vancouver losing again last night.

They may be able to limp their way through a tough trip and stay with a point of Vancouver.

Utah and St. Louis coming as well though.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

At this point you are either on "team tank" or "team delusional". It's obvious what we should be doing at the deadline.

Man I hate crap like this.

You are basically saying you either agree with me or you are wrong.

[TheIronMaiden]

Realistically, the Flames could still drop into a bottom ten spot.
Problem is I think they'd have to force it, which would anger the players.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not going to argue about the direction itself because it’s been done to death and I don’t actually know what anyone gets out of it at this point outside the joy of expressing themselves.

I’m just rejecting the “two directions” nonsense. Conroy has been consistent with slight adaptations to things like Wolf’s emergence. He’s said what he’s going to do, and he’s continued to do march down that path even as some people pick and choose little moves and say “oh that fits” or “omg changing directions!” or “if he doesn’t do THIS ONE THING it’s all DOOMED!”

I don’t know what the struggle with. But at this point any confusion over the direction is on the confused.

Retool rebuild call it whatever. If the goal is to get younger signing Andersson goes against that.

First of all trading him gets you a pick and prospect both who are younger. So singing him to the 2nd largest deal in team history will block a young player from that spot. He’s going to be 30 when the extension kicks in so yeah that does say they are going in a different direction. Sorry

[bigrangy]

Three days ago I didn’t think it would be possible to finish bottom 10 anymore. But right now they’re 1 point out if the playoffs, and merely 3 or 4 depending on tiebreakers out of the bottom 10. It won’t take any determined moves to end up bottom 10 if they keep playing the way they have over the last 10 games either.

Goal differential is already bottom 10, special teams are middling to dog#### (especially the PK), and goals are very hard to come by (bottom 5 offence). Both paths are still extremely wide open.

[Jason14h]

The Frost and Farabee trade makes a lot more sense in the “plan” if you were able to deal Kadri and Coleman for more picks / prospects . Sending out a 2nd rounder and then recouping picks while not completely gutting the team makes sense for what Conroy has said his goal is

Is you sign Anderson , keep (by choice or not ) Coleman and Kadri , and maybe even move a 1st for another 25 year old to me that’s a horrible plan and no path forward .

Looking for value in deals for mid 20s players is fine , but you have to continue to collect picks and cap flexibility . So far this year we’ve taken on a fair amount of cap and run a pick deficit since the start of the year . That’s not a good formula to get this team to a multi year contender .

The next few moves will show where this team is going

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yet understanding that both choices can fit the direction/ethos Conroy is approaching the retool with is apparently not quite simple enough for everyone to grasp.

You’ll get ‘em next time.

As it would have been to sign Lindholm. That too would have fit this pointlessly broad ethos that you are ascribing to Conroy.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Christ, why ##### foot around. Time to lean into it.
Obviously if we are ever going to win a Stanley Cup we need to trade Andersson, Weegar, Bahl, Kadri, Coleman, Zary, Coronado, Wolf, Vladar and Cooley by next Friday.
Guaranteed cup next year

The lineup I hope to see on the ice next season

2027 1st rd pick (acquired) - 2027 1st rd pick - 2028 1st rd pick (acquired)
2026 2nd rd pick - 2026 1st rd pick - 2026 1st rd pick (acquired)
2027 2nd rd pick (acquired) - 2027 2nd rd pick - 2025 1st rd pick
2025 2nd rd pick - Rory Keirns - 2026 third rd pick

Parekh - 2028 1st rd pick
2026 1st rd pick (acquired) - Brzustewicz
2025 3rd rd pick - 2026 3rd rd pick

2027 4th rd pick
2026 3rd rd pick (acquired)

Now *that's* a line up that just oozes potential - tons of weapons on offence and on defence, and only 3 skaters on the wrong side of 19 -- who, let's face it, can be unloaded before the 2026 deadline so we can get even more of an injection of youth and draft capital.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Retool rebuild call it whatever. If the goal is to get younger signing Andersson goes against that.

First of all trading him gets you a pick and prospect both who are younger. So singing him to the 2nd largest deal in team history will block a young player from that spot. He’s going to be 30 when the extension kicks in so yeah that does say they are going in a different direction. Sorry

lol no, even if the goal is just simply to “get younger” (which it isn’t) then re-signing one player does not go against it or signal some change in direction. Unless your view is so narrow-minded that even the act of just keeping any player around goes against it because of the fact that players age. Sorry.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Realistically, the Flames could still drop into a bottom ten spot.
Problem is I think they'd have to force it, which would anger the players.

In all seriousness this is what needs to be done to appease the non-delusional team tank. It will go a long way to achieving what they believe. As long as they buy the tickets through the next 1 to 3 “to the studs” rebuilds (that’s probably anywhere between 4 to 15 years), there should be no problem.
They are mostly all season ticket holders now Im assuming

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol no, even if the goal is just simply to “get younger” (which it isn’t) then re-signing one player does not go against it or signal some change in direction. Unless your view is so narrow-minded that even the act of just keeping any player around goes against it because of the fact that players age. Sorry.

Problem is it isn’t only one. Its adding to the collection of post 30 long term contracts for non top line top pair players.

We have three wingers signed long term two past 30.
Two defencemen ( with Anderson) locked up long term.

I want Anderson traded because i think his value will tsnk over the next three years i just dont see him aging well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

As it would have been to sign Lindholm. That too would have fit this pointlessly broad ethos that you are ascribing to Conroy.

Sure, depending on how they approach the asset after and the lineup flexibility afforded to them after. Hell, the team might even be worse, locking in that top 10 pick.

But, sorry, I get it. RE-SIGN BAD. TRADE GOOD. MAJOR MAD IF NO TRADE.

I get it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol no, even if the goal is just simply to “get younger” (which it isn’t) then re-signing one player does not go against it or signal some change in direction. Unless your view is so narrow-minded that even the act of just keeping any player around goes against it because of the fact that players age. Sorry.

The goal isn’t to get younger ?

It also hurts the team long term. Overpaying to keep an average and declining player.

I didn’t believe the Ranatanen stuff before but they are now discussing it openly him and Marner on TV.

You also said 1 player doesn’t make a difference and at the same time said the team had to pivot because of Wolf.

And not you but other people need to stop having these episodes of oh no trade everyone trade Wolf. No one is saying that. We need to recoup picks and draft well it’s our best shot at getting elite talent and winning.

I also firmly believe that with this regime the more picks we have the better shot we have at unearthing a star center with a later pick. They don’t draft Hunter Smith with a 2nd when a Point who they had in their backyard is on the board.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The goal isn’t to get younger ?

And not you but other people need to stop having these episodes of oh no trade everyone trade Wolf. No one is saying that. We need to recoup picks and draft well it’s our best shot at getting elite talent…..

But, what they are saying is we need to tank and even you say that the only reason we haven’t bottomed out is because of Wolf. That might even infer that we tried to tank but had even rotten luck with that.
So, logically in order to tank we either need to trade him or his performance needs to fall off a cliff for a year or 3.
Neither of which I advocate by the way, but when Im called delusional for not wanting to tank, I feel compelled to challenge the tankers into going all the way with it and do everything we can to ensure it

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The goal isn’t to get younger ?

It also hurts the team long term. Overpaying to keep an average and declining player.

I didn’t believe the Ranatanen stuff before but they are now discussing it openly him and Marner on TV.

You also said 1 player doesn’t make a difference and at the same time said the team had to pivot because of Wolf.

And not you but other people need to stop having these episodes of oh no trade everyone trade Wolf. No one is saying that. We need to recoup picks and draft well it’s our best shot at getting elite talent and winning.

I also firmly believe that with this regime the more picks we have the better shot we have at unearthing a star center with a later pick. They don’t draft Hunter Smith with a 2nd when a Point who they had in their backyard is on the board.

No the goal isn’t just to get younger. There’s no way you believe it is. Get younger? And then… what?

The reason people are having “episodes” of mockingly suggesting “trade everyone trade Wolf” is because that’s the kind of black and white approach other people keep advocating. No, nobody is saying trade Wolf, but people are making it very clear they’re only going to be happy once he is traded whether they personally realize or not.

If part of the approach is just to recoup picks and draft well, re-signing Andersson want stop them from doing it. It doesn’t stop them from trading him, or trading Weegar, or whomever. That’s why it’s tiring reading people over dramatize re-signing someone like Andersson, like “oh if we do this it’s a sign! mushy middle! mediocre team forever!”

People just need to relax and realize every decision isn’t locking the Flames into some binary path choice.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Frost and Farabee trade makes a lot more sense in the “plan” if you were able to deal Kadri and Coleman for more picks / prospects . Sending out a 2nd rounder and then recouping picks while not completely gutting the team makes sense for what Conroy has said his goal is

Is you sign Anderson , keep (by choice or not ) Coleman and Kadri , and maybe even move a 1st for another 25 year old to me that’s a horrible plan and no path forward .

Looking for value in deals for mid 20s players is fine , but you have to continue to collect picks and cap flexibility . So far this year we’ve taken on a fair amount of cap and run a pick deficit since the start of the year . That’s not a good formula to get this team to a multi year contender .

The next few moves will show where this team is going

The path forward would be to trade those guys when they are 30 and start the process all over again.

Zero picks should be leaving our organization now. 1st round picks shouldn’t move until the team is a contender.

The middle 6 is filled with players now. The goal should be to chart a way to get elite players 1st line players. Only way to do that is via the draft. He tried to trade for 18-23 year olds but no one is trading those guys unless they are problematic players like a Dach or Cozens.