Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Do you think trading a 24 yr old winger, a 29 year old winger, a 2nd round pick and a 7th round pick for two 25 yr old players is some sign that they are departing from the plan and a doomed mindset?

Nope, I was in favor of the trade and continue to be. So long as they continue to trade away aging vets now or in the offseason.

If Conroy saw these guys as replacements for Kadri and Coleman, awesome. Try that.

But if they see them as layers of depth that will get this group over the top, if only we can keep adding them, we are doomed.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Nope, I was in favor of the trade and continue to be. So long as they continue to trade away aging vets now or in the offseason.

If Conroy saw these guys as replacements for Kadri and Coleman, awesome. Try that.

But if they see them as layers of depth that will get this group over the top, if only we can keep adding them, we are doomed.

There’s nothing that suggests the latter is the case.

Conroy says what he’s going to do and why, does it, and then people wonder if what he did is departing from the plan. I seriously don’t understand what reality people are living in.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Nope, I was in favor of the trade and continue to be. So long as they continue to trade away aging vets now or in the offseason.

If Conroy saw these guys as replacements for Kadri and Coleman, awesome. Try that.

But if they see them as layers of depth that will get this group over the top, if only we can keep adding them, we are doomed.

Well you can count me in the camp of people who are not too worried that Conroy is trying to win now or even has any intention to try to win now. I think he is clearly in the Carolina mode of trying to accumulate assets. To my eye he has the following players under the age of 23 who could be NHL players or already are

Could be
Honzek
Hunter B
Stromgrem
Keirns
Poirer
Kuznetzov
Suniev
Morin
Parekh
Gridin
Mews
Battaglia
Basha

Already are
Coronato
Zary

He also has 4 first round picks, two second round picks and three third round picks over the next 2 seasons. I actually cannot remember a time in Flames history where they had so many existing assets under the age of 23 and had so many future picks (assets) coming into the system.

Note- I did not count goalies because I think they are voodoo and I don’t know how to rationally evaluate whether they are legit prospects beyond just knowing they exist.

[Jason14h]

Yes the Flames are shaping up to have one of the strongest middle 6 cores in the NHL in a few years

The issue is we need an entire 1st line (or at least 2/3rds of one) and another star D

Time will tell if we can find these .

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There’s nothing that suggests the latter is the case.

Conroy says what he’s going to do and why, does it, and then people wonder if what he did is departing from the plan. I seriously don’t understand what reality people are living in.

This is the part of “X Box Team Tank” I don’t understand.
There is no evidence that Conroy is trying to get this team over the hump. Like you said, he is doing what he said he would (getting younger, building a good culture)
Yet, team tank wants all the vets traded so we can participate in a lottery. Then 5 years from now, they will be clamouring to get rid of Wolf and Zary because they are old losers and “we need to tank”
It’s baffling. It’s like they aren’t paying attention to what’s really happening. I’d understand that approach better if they advocated trading Wolf. He is the reason we are in playoff contention after all.
Or hell, I’ve said it before. Instead of pouting for a tank, why not embrace the draft lottery chances like a grownup and maximize your chances by insisting on 3 or 4 years of forfeits

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There’s nothing that suggests the latter is the case.

Conroy says what he’s going to do and why, does it, and then people wonder if what he did is departing from the plan. I seriously don’t understand what reality people are living in.

So you think he's going to trade Andersson? Because that's the lynchpin of the two directions in my mind. He's certainly been pretty public with his desire to sign him, but that could be strategic.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yes the Flames are shaping up to have one of the strongest middle 6 cores in the NHL in a few years

The issue is we need an entire 1st line (or at least 2/3rds of one) and another star D

Time will tell if we can find these .

I guess. The 96th best scoring forward will be around 55 points this year. The 60th best scoring forward will be around 68 points. Suspect the Flames either already have players that will finish within 1st line point totals or are projected to be. They probably don’t have anyone who is likely to finish in the top 20 scoring forwards though. So they are probably missing one first line forward (two max).

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This entire post would be relevant if there was any evidence Conroy was trying to win now. Since he is not and has not made any moves to make anyone rationally think he is trying to win now you have nothing to worry about.

He’s pretty much said the move for Frost and Farabee is a win now and in the future move.

Not sure how that’s not evident when you trade for a 25 year old winger and soon to be 26 year old center.

The next 3-5 years are going to be their prime years and most productive years most likely.

Doesn’t mean the plan is changing it just means that this isn’t a rebuild and I think his goal was to go younger but 18-23 year old centers aren’t being traded. So he has had to pivot.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There is very little evidence of that.

Actually that was the case under Sutter. I think Burke probably changed the mindset of ownership when he came.

Also just heard Burke say that the first few home games the revenue is pooled so it’s false that teams are banking on just getting in to get 2 home games.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Major Major

So you think he's going to trade Andersson? Because that's the lynchpin of the two directions in my mind. He's certainly been pretty public with his desire to sign him, but that could be strategic.

Andersson was going to always be the one who showed us what direction this team is heading in.

His contract alone should get us a good haul. If we sign him it has potential to be a Seth Jones type blunder.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Actually that was the case under Sutter. I think Burke probably changed the mindset of ownership when he came.

Also just heard Burke say that the first few home games the revenue is pooled so it’s false that teams are banking on just getting in to get 2 home games.

I was commenting on the here and now

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I guess. The 96th best scoring forward will be around 55 points this year. The 60th best scoring forward will be around 68 points. Suspect the Flames either already have players that will finish within 1st line point totals or are projected to be. They probably don’t have anyone who is likely to finish in the top 20 scoring forwards though. So they are probably missing one first line forward (two max).

So with one more 1st liner we could aim to have the weakest 1st line in the NHL!

To win a cup you need 5-6 stars/superstars on the roster (or at least players have a star season )

Right now we have wolf and hopefully Parekh looking like stars . Let’s hope one of the other wingers grows into a star as well . Your still missing 3 star quality players easily from this team

This team is no where near contention at this point . Even trading for 25/26 year old is wrong IMO . I didn’t hate the Frost trade because I see potential for those guys to be moved for more assets in 2 years when the true rebuild kicks in , but right now it looks like we got a contract dump and a 3rd line Center, but of who will be late 20s before any true competitive window opens . And we shipped out a 2nd rounder which is a potential player entering their prime in our competitive window vs leaving , and used cap space

Shopping out a 2nd round here , and a first here , etc will get us exactly where we don’t want to be (or shouldn’t want to be)

Trading for players like Frost should be the goal 2 years from now , not this season .

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Why would that be any business owner's top priority? You stand to lose tens of millions a year in actual cash during the lean years, and then maybe, if you're lucky, you get a couple of deep playoff runs from which the league skims half the gate revenue off the top.

You don't own a sports team with the goal of making money on a yearly basis. You could sell the team right now (at a massive profit) and invest the money and make significantly more every year than operating the team. Guaranteed passive income. Clearly there is an element of hobby here.

And if you actually build it right you should have maybe 5 leaner years and hopefully be competitive for at least 10. You land a few top picks along with other prospects and you think this fan base wouldn't have interest?

But yes maybe our ownership values the bottom line more than winning, in which case winning a cup will be that much harder. Amazon didn't turn into one of the biggest companies on earth trying to turn a profit every year. If other teams in way weaker markets can do it I think the Flames would be just fine. It's their money they can do as they choose, I just would have low expectations for building an elite contender if that's how they insist on operating. They're competing with other teams willing to do more.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

So you think he's going to trade Andersson? Because that's the lynchpin of the two directions in my mind. He's certainly been pretty public with his desire to sign him, but that could be strategic.

There aren’t two directions. There’s the one direction the team is going in: retooling by adding players in their mid 20s or younger and building through the draft.

When they blow a 1st on a 30+ player then you can wonder about changing directions. But creating these self-invented conditions is just silly. They can trade Andersson or keep him, both fit the direction. Both might not fit the direction some people are still stubborning convincing themselves the Flames are or should be going, but those people just need to get over it so we don’t have to have this conversation every two weeks.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There aren’t two directions. There’s the one direction the team is going in: retooling by adding players in their mid 20s or younger and building through the draft.

When they blow a 1st on a 30+ player then you can wonder about changing directions. But creating these self-invented conditions is just silly. They can trade Andersson or keep him, both fit the direction. Both might not fit the direction some people are still stubborning convincing themselves the Flames are or should be going, but those people just need to get over it so we don’t have to have this conversation every two weeks.

Who are we retooling around ? That’s the issue. We have zero star players up front.

I don’t hate the Forst and Farabee trade but they are both in their prime years. Whatever production they provide should be complementing star players which we have zero outside of Wolf.

Unless a Jack Eichel pops up that really should be the last trade Conory makes that involves any picks.

Keeping Andersson gives the impression he think the team can compete. They can’t. Andersson is also extremely overrated.

What I’m starting to feel is the same thing that happened under Sutter but this time with younger players and no star forward.

[All In Good Time]

Christ, why ##### foot around. Time to lean into it.
Obviously if we are ever going to win a Stanley Cup we need to trade Andersson, Weegar, Bahl, Kadri, Coleman, Zary, Coronado, Wolf, Vladar and Cooley by next Friday.
Guaranteed cup next year

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who are we retooling around ? That’s the issue. We have zero star players up front.

I don’t hate the Forst and Farabee trade but they are both in their prime years. Whatever production they provide should be complementing star players which we have zero outside of Wolf.

Unless a Jack Eichel pops up that really should be the last trade Conory makes that involves any picks.

Keeping Andersson gives the impression he think the team can compete. They can’t. Andersson is also extremely overrated.

What I’m starting to feel is the same thing that happened under Sutter but this time with younger players and no star forward.

I’m not going to argue about the direction itself because it’s been done to death and I don’t actually know what anyone gets out of it at this point outside the joy of expressing themselves.

I’m just rejecting the “two directions” nonsense. Conroy has been consistent with slight adaptations to things like Wolf’s emergence. He’s said what he’s going to do, and he’s continued to do march down that path even as some people pick and choose little moves and say “oh that fits” or “omg changing directions!” or “if he doesn’t do THIS ONE THING it’s all DOOMED!”

I don’t know what the struggle with. But at this point any confusion over the direction is on the confused.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There aren’t two directions. There’s the one direction the team is going in: retooling by adding players in their mid 20s or younger and building through the draft.

When they blow a 1st on a 30+ player then you can wonder about changing directions. But creating these self-invented conditions is just silly. They can trade Andersson or keep him, both fit the direction. Both might not fit the direction some people are still stubborning convincing themselves the Flames are or should be going, but those people just need to get over it so we don’t have to have this conversation every two weeks.

Any direction is good and according to plan just so long as it's not this one hyperbolic example that would never happen and has never happened.

Stubborning about the direction of the team on the stubborning board is a waste of time unless it's just to agree that all realistic directions are good.

Well said.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Any direction is good and according to plan just so long as it's not this one hyperbolic example that would never happen and has never happened.

Stubborning about the direction of the team on the stubborning board is a waste of time unless it's just to agree that all realistic directions are good.

Well said.

If inventing a strawman and jumping on a typo makes you feel better about having no good response to a pretty clear and simple argument based on fact, then fill your boots but it’s pretty boring to read.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Christ, why ##### foot around. Time to lean into it.
Obviously if we are ever going to win a Stanley Cup we need to trade Andersson, Weegar, Bahl, Kadri, Coleman, Zary, Coronado, Wolf, Vladar and Cooley by next Friday.
Guaranteed cup next year

If only people would stop the pouting, am I right?