Russia invades Ukraine

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Reuters has a summary of comments from world leaders. A lot of it is boiler plate "we continue to stand with Ukraine", but also some pretty poignant statements. Also, #### Orban. I love Hungary, but Orban is such a jerk.

https://www.reuters.com/world/world-...sh-2025-02-28/

They don't say it, but I hope those leaders understand it: the US isn't simply abandoning Ukraine, it's collaborating with Russia.



The purging of "disloyal" leaders and civil servants, the constant flow of propaganda and lies, the anti LGBTQ+ measures, the anti-immigrant rhetoric and purging, the leaning into Christianity as a means of exercising control - it's all consistent with Putin's influence and designs.



It's starting to look like we were very naive to believe that Russia had some kompromat on Trump that he was holding over him. In fact, Trump and the Republican party's collaboration with Russian interests appears to be a choice they've freely exercised to secure power for a particular ideology. The many unrecorded calls between Trump and Putin were probably about Trump getting advice and the two striking deals.



Europe needs to arm up. It's now basically squeezed between two Russias, and its various democratic systems are going to face a full assault of disinformation and manipulation trying to turn them just as the US has been turned.



As for us... we're in real trouble, I think.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GGG

Ukraine will want US companies to invest in mining and refining in the Ukraine. Once Russia is less of a threat they can put royalties and taxes on these companies.

I don’t think any deal here actually costs the Ukraine much as they need all the capital reivestment they can get. So if you get large investments to build mines it needs to come with housing for workers and your economy gets built around mineral export.

There is economic benefit created by the minerals being extracted.

I can see the logic to just agreeing to whatever at this point, but it would not make the US any more reliable or trustworthy. I certainly wouldn't trust the US to follow through on their side of the agreement...I'd expect nothing but delays and more unreasonable demands.

I don't know if this is Zelenksey's intent, but the hope might be for the rest of Europe to have to really confront this new reality. Not sure how that plays out. Things are so ####ed.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What is with the sudden focus on Ukraine's minerals? It's not like this was just discovered yesterday. Ukraine has always been happy to trade with friendly countries.

They already produce and export things like iron ore, coal, titanium oxide, etc. Not to mention food like wheat and poultry.

Putin told Trump about it.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Not ashamed to admit that I cried a little on J6 out of fear of this, and now that it's happening i just feel numb.

Ive been listening to the podcast "fall of civilizations" for the past 2 years and it's been fascinating. Imo the American empire is already dead historically speaking. We just don't know the date it will be declared DOA yet. But we're talking exactly like the few records we have from people in/adjacent to other great empires during collapse.

As someone, who lived through the fall of USSR - albeit as 10 years old - it seems like USA is far from dead. It's nowhere near the level of 1991 USSR. We were getting food distributed to population, because people couldn't buy it. Even those, who have some money, still couldn't buy food because the shops were empty.

That being said, USA may well be heading towards a fall. And it didn't start with Trump either. Remember the day when it became apparent, that Biden has no mental capacity whatsoever. Even before that - the Bush/Gore election, when a judge voted to stop recounting was probably the first crack in democracy.

[Itse]

An upside of the disgrace of the White House is that a lot of European leaders have felt a need to reiterate their support for Ukraine.

- Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk: “Dear Zelensky, dear Ukrainian friends, you are not alone.”

- President of Lithuania Gitanas Nausea: “Ukraine, you’ll never walk alone.”

- Denmark Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen: “Dear Zelensky, Denmark proudly stands with Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.”

- French President Emmanual Macron: “There is an aggressor: Russia. There is a people being aggressed: Ukraine. We were all right to help Ukraine and sanction Russia three years ago and to continue doing so. We, that’s the Americans, the Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, and many others. Thank you to all those who have helped and continue to do so. And respect to those who, from the beginning, have been fighting. Because they are fighting for their dignity, their independence, for their children, and for the security of Europe.”

- President of Moldova Maia Sandu: “The truth is simple. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is the aggressor. Ukraine defends its freedom—and ours. We stand with Ukraine.”

- Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson: “Sweden stands with Ukraine. You are not only fighting for your freedom but also for all of Europe’s. Slava Ukraini! ”

- Incoming German Chancellor Friedrich Mer: “Dear Volodymyr @zelenskyyua, we stand with #Ukraine in good and in testing times. We must never confuse aggressor and victim in this terrible war. (FM)”

- Croatia’s Prime Minister Andrej Plenković: “Croatia knows from its own experience that only a just peace can last. The Croatian Government stands firm in its belief that Ukraine needs such a peace - a peace that means sovereignty, territorial integrity, and a secure Europe.”

- Finland’s Prime Minister @PetteriOrpo: “Finland and the Finnish people stand firmly with Ukraine. We will continue our unwavering support and work towards a just and lasting peace.”

- Estonian Prime Minister Kristen Michal: “We stand united with @ZelenskyyUa and Ukraine in our fight for freedom. Always. Because it is right, not easy.”

- Ireland’s Deputy Prime Minister Simon Harris: “Ukraine is not to blame for this war brought about by Russia’s illegal invasion. We stand with Ukraine.“

- Latvia’s President Edgars Rinkevics: “Ukraine is a victim of the Russian aggression. It fights the war with the help from many friends and partners. We need to spare no effort for just and lasting peace. Diplomacy sometimes is the art of the impossible in difficult circumstances. Latvia stands with Ukraine”

- Prime Minister of the Netherlands Dick Schoof: ”The Netherlands supports Ukraine as firmly as ever. Now more than ever. We want a lasting peace and an end to the war of aggression started by Russia. For Ukraine and its people, and for Europe.”

- Prime Minister of Luxembourg Luc Friedsen: “Luxembourg stands with Ukraine. You are fighting for your freedom and a rules based international order. ”


In at this point slightly older but very much related news, Finland has announced it will be donating around $691M worth of new locally built military materiel to Ukraine. (No details which is always the policy in Finland, but likely items include armored vehicles, drones, sensors, small arms, body armor and artilllery shells/explosives.)

This is a notable shift since previously Finland like most countries was donating primarily from stockpiles of older materiel. As Europe has been starting to rebuild it's military industries, we're likely to see many countries do the same, essentially using support to Ukraine as a subsidy for their local industry, and also for getting those incredibly valuable field testing opportunities.

In other words, Europe is re-discovering how the military-industrial complex works, and decisions like these are extremely good news for Ukraine, as this kind of materiel donation now ties major financial interests of foreign companies directly to continued support of Ukraine.

Rheinmetall, who recently announced it will convert two automotive factories to make defense equipment, has already been extremely active in using both German and Ukrainian funds to build up new production lines, and you can be sure companies like these are lobbying hard for Ukraine.

[Itse]

I expect US based defense industry is btw currently lobbying hard for continued support of Ukraine, and that's the likely reason why some GOP politicians are going against Trump on this topic.

[Itse]

Not sure if this piece of positive news from the frontlines were already posted, but it looks like Ukraine has finally found a way to jam Russia's glidebombs.

This is a really significant development, as those things have been causing massive issues for Ukraine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...ld-advantages/

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I really find this post distasteful.

Its gotta be satire. “Hemi-Cuda” has got to be the most a boomer specific username on this board.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Boomers will go down as the most entitled, selfish, and dangerous generation in human history

You might want to look at the demographic breakdown of polls on democracy.

A poll from The Economist/YouGov shows that among U.S. adults surveyed, support for democracy is strongest among older Americans, but it declines in every subsequent younger age bracket — with the weakest levels of support among adults younger than 45.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...rm-government/

International study reveals 42% of people aged 18 to 35 supportive of military rule, against 20% of older respondents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mocracy-survey

[WideReceiver]

That meeting wasn’t a total waste of time. It exposed to the world who Trump really is, as if we needed confirmation. It’s united every non-fascist country against a common enemy. I think that display will damage Trump and will turn out to be a huge mistake and could lead to his downfall.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Boomers will go down as the most entitled, selfish, and dangerous generation in human history

Support for isolationism is higher among younger age groups, who have no memory of the fall of the Soviet Union and the times before that. Millenials and Gen Z are shaped more by memories of 9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

https://globalaffairs.org/research/p...bal-engagement

[karl262]

Close-up of Vance during Zelensky oval office meeting

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[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Support for isolationism is higher among younger age groups, who have no memory of the fall of the Soviet Union and the times before that. Millenials and Gen Z are shaped more by memories of 9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

https://globalaffairs.org/research/p...bal-engagement

How does that change what boomers did? They got to enjoy the most prosperous middle class in history thanks to the New Deal, and then promptly pulled the ladder up behind them as soon as their kids started entering the workforce. And now because of their voting patterns, we've entered a new gilded age. Hatred towards minorities and LGBTQ, crumbling healthcare & infrastructure, wealth inequality that we've never seen before, all thanks to that generation voting as a block for increasingly hard right governments for the last 2 decades. But don't you dare touch their Medicare or social security

[WideReceiver]

I’m a boomer and the contention that we’re block voting en for right-wing candidates is false. Most of us I know have moved left.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Itse

Correction.

It's kind of remarkable how the CIA hasn't locked these people up as foreign agents long ago.

If they had anything, they 100% would have.

[Dunnyberg]

Would love to see them talk to Netanyahu like that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

How does that change what boomers did? They got to enjoy the most prosperous middle class in history thanks to the New Deal, and then promptly pulled the ladder up behind them as soon as their kids started entering the workforce. And now because of their voting patterns, we've entered a new gilded age. Hatred towards minorities and LGBTQ, crumbling healthcare & infrastructure, wealth inequality that we've never seen before, all thanks to that generation voting as a block for increasingly hard right governments for the last 2 decades. But don't you dare touch their Medicare or social security

The greatest gains in LGBTQ rights (70s to 2000s) came while Boomers were in positions of authority. Opposition to interracial marriage plummeted in that period.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Itse

I expect US based defense industry is btw currently lobbying hard for continued support of Ukraine, and that's the likely reason why some GOP politicians are going against Trump on this topic.

Trumps gonna be forced to take a stronger stance once he figures out a peace deal with Ukrainian concessions is a nonstarter. But he's still gotta go through the motions because he is who he is.

Peace deal failure plus intense aerospace and defense lobbying makes it an easy flip flop. If things start looking real bad for Ukraine some Europeans may get directly involved. Hopefully Trump comes to the conclusion that it would be a bad thing to have Germany in direct combat fighting against the Russians. On the steppe, once again.

The only logical step is to give Ukraine whatever it needs to restore their borders. And that's really all Ukraine wants.

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[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by karl262

The only logical step is to give Ukraine whatever it needs to restore their borders. And that's really all Ukraine wants.

What's needed is the whole world to supply 500,000 "peacekeeping" troops and equipment lined up on the front lines with a clear message, come any closer and the peace ends. Bore them back to Russia.

I'm tired of hearing about Putin's nuclear threats, The British and French could end Russia in 2 hours with their submarines alone and Putin knows it.

[devo22]

Britain, France and Ukraine have agreed to work on a ceasefire plan to present to the United States, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer said Sunday as he prepared to host a summit of European leaders to discuss ending the war.

The summit has been overshadowed by the extraordinary scolding by U.S. President Donald Trump of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House on Friday for being ungrateful for U.S. support in Ukraine’s battle against the invasion by Russia.

But Starmer said he’s focused on being a bridge to restore peace talks and he used the collapse of those talks as an opportunity to re-engage with Trump and Zelenskyy and French President Emmanuel Macron rather than “ramp up the rhetoric.”

“We’ve now agreed that the United Kingdom, along with France and possibly one or two others, will work with Ukraine on a plan to stop the fighting, and then we’ll discuss that plan with the United States,” Starmer told the BBC. Starmer and Macron have both spoken to Trump since Friday.

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-b...4c565f14ee6cc9


I'm not surprised Macron is ready and willing to take on a leadership role, but good to see Starmer stepping up as well.