Russia invades Ukraine

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Trump admin does what you'd expect. Start prepping the groundwork for Ukrainian surrender.

Hegseth says Ukraine cannot expect return to old borders, NATO membership

Hegseth is a massive piece of $hit

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Trump admin does what you'd expect. Start prepping the groundwork for Ukrainian surrender.

Hegseth says Ukraine cannot expect return to old borders, NATO membership

What a ####ing #######.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What a ####ing #######.

Agreed. But just a lapdog though. His master is inviting Putin for a visit!

Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform that he and Putin had “agreed to work together, very closely”, expressing confidence talks would be “successful” and vowing “no more lives should be lost!” Trump said the two leaders also agreed to visit each other’s nations.

The Allies invited Hitler and the Emperor over during WWII right?

Trump and Putin starting talks on ending war

[Sainters7]

Regarding it not being feasible for Ukraine to return to it's pretty-invasion borders: let me guess...they'll have a totally different policy regarding Ukraine holding Russia's Kursk region.

[btimbit]

Ukraine getting its old borders back was probably never going to happen, but announcing it like that while also announcing you're going to invite the enemy dictator over to discuss it is such a stab in the back. And they'd likely have to hand Kursk back too.

Disgusting stuff from the US.

The only way that's remotely palatable for Ukraine is if it comes with a NATO membership and a rebuilding scheme. I'm guessing the former will also firmly be off the table.

Despicable

[Sol]

Is there a world where Ukraine gets Crimea for Kursk and tells Trump he can mine whatever he wants from anything else he can get back from Russia?

[curves2000]

I hate to say it but I don't think this policy would have been really much different if Harris had won in November. Biden really handcuffed Ukraine and support from the US and other allies like the EU was always short and late.

The longer this war went on with Biden as President the more and more I felt that this outcome today was where we would get. I doubt NATO membership and full withdraw of Russian troops was ever going to happen but they kept selling the dream to Ukraine. In the end the level of death and destruction to countless people in multiple countries is shocking.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I hate to say it but I don't think this policy would have been really much different if Harris had won in November. Biden really handcuffed Ukraine and support from the US and other allies like the EU was always short and late.

The longer this war went on with Biden as President the more and more I felt that this outcome today was where we would get. I doubt NATO membership and full withdraw of Russian troops was ever going to happen but they kept selling the dream to Ukraine. In the end the level of death and destruction to countless people in multiple countries is shocking.

You seem really willing to just roll over and take it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I hate to say it but I don't think this policy would have been really much different if Harris had won in November. Biden really handcuffed Ukraine and support from the US and other allies like the EU was always short and late.

The longer this war went on with Biden as President the more and more I felt that this outcome today was where we would get. I doubt NATO membership and full withdraw of Russian troops was ever going to happen but they kept selling the dream to Ukraine. In the end the level of death and destruction to countless people in multiple countries is shocking.

You think Harris would just capitulate to Russian interests? Why?

[SutterBrother]

Considering we already know that Trump is Putin’s bitch, no I don’t think it would have been the same thing under Harris.

Since, you know, for her flaws, she isn’t a pathetic dotard.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You seem really willing to just roll over and take it.

Furthest thing from the truth. America and NATO should had made it about as clear as black and white what would happen if this full invasion didn't end as soon as we saw how big it was.

Ukraine should have been armed to the T, given a lot more equipment, intelligence and sanctions on Russia that actually had some teeth imposed and been done with this nonsense right away.

This problem should have been dealt with globally at the start but everybody was too busy worried about Putin's feelings.

We had a ton of global support for Ukraine but not nearly enough action where it mattered. Putin and other allies like North Korea/China and more have learned a lot about the west's resolve with this. Look how pathetic a response we had to things like sending tanks and air defense to Ukraine.

Something tells me if Putin casually walks into Talon, Estonia to prove a point, I highly doubt America and the G7 nations are going to react like NATO article 5 says they should. Same thing with China and Taiwan.

I think if Harris won we would still be doing exactly what Biden was doing. Limiting exposure, saying all the right things but really avoiding poking the bear. I just don't see someone who couldn't provide a few basic answers in softball interviews all of a sudden authorizing escalatory military action. She would have played it safe like Biden did and now we have Trump who may or may not play it totally wrong.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

You think Harris would just capitulate to Russian interests? Why?

No but I don't think Harris would have made the military changes that are required for Ukraine to actually win this war. Plenty of analysts in military circles keep asking what the US and NATO's objectives were on this. They provided some decent level of support but not enough to even come close to winning.

We are approaching going into the 4th year into this thing and Ukraine still doesn't have proper air defense and air force capabilities in order to win.

They struggle to keep the lights and heat on from the daily attacks. This doesn't sound like we gave them the tools in the toolbox to actually win this war. Trump will probably mess this up but Biden/Harris screwed this up major as well.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Furthest thing from the truth. America and NATO should had made it about as clear as black and white what would happen if this full invasion didn't end as soon as we saw how big it was.

Ukraine should have been armed to the T, given a lot more equipment, intelligence and sanctions on Russia that actually had some teeth imposed and been done with this nonsense right away.

This problem should have been dealt with globally at the start but everybody was too busy worried about Putin's feelings.

We had a ton of global support for Ukraine but not nearly enough action where it mattered. Putin and other allies like North Korea/China and more have learned a lot about the west's resolve with this. Look how pathetic a response we had to things like sending tanks and air defense to Ukraine.

Something tells me if Putin casually walks into Talon, Estonia to prove a point, I highly doubt America and the G7 nations are going to react like NATO article 5 says they should. Same thing with China and Taiwan.

I think if Harris won we would still be doing exactly what Biden was doing. Limiting exposure, saying all the right things but really avoiding poking the bear. I just don't see someone who couldn't provide a few basic answers in softball interviews all of a sudden authorizing escalatory military action. She would have played it safe like Biden did and now we have Trump who may or may not play it totally wrong.

I think your last statement is off base. He doesn’t care about Ukraine, he will play it wrong. He’s gonna sell them down the river to get his peace so he can hang with his buddy vlad and call it victory. His MAGA supporters will lap it up, Putin is emboldened and normalized, Ukraine is diminished. That’s the only path he’s on right now.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Considering we already know that Trump is Putin’s bitch, no I don’t think it would have been the same thing under Harris.

Since, you know, for her flaws, she isn’t a pathetic dotard.

Dotard is not used enough to describe the orange rapist.

[CroFlames]

Makes me sick to my stomach that America is selling out Ukraine. I can't even begin to think what Ukrainians are feeling now.

Hopefully Europe unites and backs Ukraine.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Makes me sick to my stomach that America is selling out Ukraine. I can't even begin to think what Ukrainians are feeling now.

Hopefully Europe unites and backs Ukraine.

Honestly as they should. If Europe put more than the minimum in, this likely would be different. The US frankly should but doesn’t care enough past destabilizing and weakening Russia. That was Biden strategy, not Trump.

Remember when Germany was blocking help over and over? Europe is Europe, and if they want a free Ukraine they need to step in and lead. The US has created a large blow to Putin and his army. They can slide in and hold the line for a long while. Putin ain’t messing with any highly skilled army the size Europe can provide, his WWII tanks will be in flames overnight.

The US has done their part frankly. It’s actually Europe that needs to not sell Ukraine out.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Honestly as they should. If Europe put more than the minimum in, this likely would be different. The US frankly should but doesn’t care enough past destabilizing and weakening Russia. That was Biden strategy, not Trump.

Remember when Germany was blocking help over and over? Europe is Europe, and if they want a free Ukraine they need to step in and lead. The US has created a large blow to Putin and his army. They can slide in and hold the line for a long while. Putin ain’t messing with any highly skilled army the size Europe can provide, his WWII tanks will be in flames overnight.

The US has done their part frankly. It’s actually Europe that needs to not sell Ukraine out.

If you had any other normal conservative in office in the US, they would be viewing this as the best opportunity since WWII to permanently weaken their greatest enemy and they wouldn't even need to sacrifice a single American life. All they have to do is build weapons and ammunition (which they love to do anyway) and lend-lease to Ukraine.

This president seems to think Russia is America's friend.

[calumniate]

He's the most transactioanl human being ever. #### this guy

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

I think your last statement is off base. He doesn’t care about Ukraine, he will play it wrong. He’s gonna sell them down the river to get his peace so he can hang with his buddy vlad and call it victory. His MAGA supporters will lap it up, Putin is emboldened and normalized, Ukraine is diminished. That’s the only path he’s on right now.

I don't really disagree with your stance and everything said above may become true, we just don't know overall details until whatever peace plan/ceasefire comes. I think America will just look after American interests in this regard.

My point about Harris though is that I don't think she would have taken a hard stance with Putin. I don't think NATO membership and pre-2014 borders were really on the table from her side if they won. That is more or less what the current defense secretary is saying. I don't see a radical change in policy in regards to how we settle this thing.

Trump could very well screw this up without a doubt but as I said before, America/ Biden/Harris and the west already screwed this up from day #1

[Huntingwhale]

https://www.tiktok.com/@m_a_l_i_f_i_...65007549009157

Came across this footage of my wife/in-laws actual apartment that they hid out in when the war started, and what shape it's in now. The reddish apartment at the beginning with the small enclosed balcony is theirs. Can't believe I used to eat dinner and hang with her family there, drink beers and sit with my wife and her Mom as they would smoke cigarettes off that balcony. You can see russia in the distance from the balcony

I made a post a few years ago how my MIL was trapped under some rubble after it got hit by shelling while she was at a neighbors. That's the grey apartment beside them with the missing roof where she got hit, and amazingly survived. She has a nice big nasty scar on her leg from that.

So that's pretty much where my in-laws bunkered down for almost 7 months before being liberated. Relatively speaking, their unit was one of the lucky ones that seems to have gotten the least amount of damage. They are one of the few apartments with an actual basement so they only went up to their unit to cook or get supplies, and to this day I still consider it a miracle they survived while many around them died

Mostly nobody lives there now in the entire village other than a few inhabitants who come by occasionally, or some military/government personnel who come by for whatever reason.