Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

14 games less played than our players and would be our top point producing forward. And likely our best defensive forward too.

Different team-mates, different systems.
And you are assuming he would still be here.

I guess in a world of imagination where we get to make up things as a way to support one's strongly held opinions, that all could be true.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And yet many people thought they would be a strong team, including on this board.

I guess this is where you tell us that those people are dumb.
OK.

Have you ever eaten carb free food? They make it with basically all the same ingredients, they sub in the carb stuff for texture-matching things that provide similar flavours, and yet you mix it all together and bake it and it tastes nothing like the original product.

That's the flames team you are describing. I think it is pretty foolish to think it was going to come out of the oven a contender right away when you swapped the main ingredients for facsimiles.

[Saqe]

Treliving runs a team like a pizza joint

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Different team-mates, different systems.
And you are assuming he would still be here.

I guess in a world of imagination where we get to make up things as a way to support one's strongly held opinions, that all could be true.

Ok, so you, who acidulously told me just last year that the CBJ are horribly built and unlikely to succeed (in a convo about kekalainen, I remember) now are saying that they have better players that help Monahan succeed?

Make up your mind.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Have you ever eaten carb free food? They make it with basically all the same ingredients, they sub in the carb stuff for texture-matching things that provide similar flavours, and yet you mix it all together and bake it and it tastes nothing like the original product.

That's the flames team you are describing. I think it is pretty foolish to think it was going to come out of the oven a contender right away when you swapped the main ingredients for facsimiles.

Didn't the Panthers do the same thing. They made significant changes to their team - and it led to a championship.

You make changes you think are good for your team. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

Jonathan Huberdeau was coming off a season where he produced more assists than anyone else in the entire history of the NHL for a LWer.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Ok, so you, who acidulously told me just last year that the CBJ are horribly built and unlikely to succeed (in a convo about kekalainen, I remember) now are saying that they have better players that help Monahan succeed?

Make up your mind.

Well clearly they are a better team than i thought they would be. So maybe I was wrong about how they were built, but based on the information I had at the time, it was a legitimate opinion.

But maybe I was wrong.

One's opinions can change when new information presents itself.

I'm always amazed that somehow people keep track of what other people say on this site. Do you have a scoreboard where you track how often people are right or wrong? Seems like you care a lot about that.

I'm also not saying they are better than the Flames or have better players. But they certainly produce more offense which would help his point totals.

Do you think if he was on the Flames he would have the same point totals?

[Bonded]

My biggest issue with Tre was how he handled Gaudreau. He would overpay UFAs which led to cap problems but absolutely tried to grind the players the Flames drafted.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Including Hage in the price the Flames paid is not accurate.
Including because the Habs had to first re-sign him as a UFA. Then they got the 1st for him.
Great job by the Habs, but let's not over-state the price Calgary paid. Chances are Monny was moving on as a free agent.

Ok well this makes it even worse? Why give up assets on someone that would become a free agent anyways in the near future. Ok fine you wanna dump a guy underperforming on a long-term deal.. it's going to cost you. This wasn't the case.

It was moreso Treliving's stubborness about the actual quality of the flames roster that made him make this giant head scratcher of a move.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Didn't the Panthers do the same thing. They made significant changes to their team - and it led to a championship.

You make changes you think are good for your team. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

Jonathan Huberdeau was coming off a season where he produced more assists than anyone else in the entire history of the NHL for a LWer.

Huberdeau had led the team for almost a decade with virtually no real success. Barkov came in, took over the room and culture, and Huberdeau really started succeeding under no pressure. Then, with Barkov leading the charge, the team took in some playoff experience, and saw that Huberdeau wasn't really showing up in those big games. That's when they decided to pivot away from him.

We were forced to pivot away from two of our undisputed offensive drivers. The player we traded for Huberdeau was also a key playoff performer for us. Further, we also lost at the same time our real offensive player, RIP. Really, it would be like the Panthers trading Huberdeau and Barkov in the same season. If we'd lost just one we might be able to produce a similar on ice product. But both?!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well clearly they are a better team than i thought they would be. So maybe I was wrong about how they were built, but based on the information I had at the time, it was a legitimate opinion.

But maybe I was wrong.

One's opinions can change when new information presents itself.

I'm always amazed that somehow people keep track of what other people say on this site. Do you have a scoreboard where you track how often people are right or wrong? Seems like you care a lot about that.

I'm also not saying they are better than the Flames or have better players. But they certainly produce more offense which would help his point totals.

Do you think if he was on the Flames he would have the same point totals?

I think he'd play with Huberdeau and probably coronato here. Can't say I think he'd be worse off with those line mates, frankly.

[Terradude]

Originally Posted by Bonded

My biggest issue with Tre was how he handled Gaudreau. He would overpay UFAs which led to cap problems but absolutely tried to grind the players the Flames drafted.

Not just Gaudreau, Treliving completely messed up the early Tkachuk negotiations, leading to Tkachuk sitting out camp, going golfing with his dad and brother in Scotland (I saw them there) and setting the stage for his early departure. They could have, and should have signed him to 8 years then and there but instead they bridged him right out of here.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Ok well this makes it even worse? Why give up assets on someone that would become a free agent anyways in the near future. Ok fine you wanna dump a guy underperforming on a long-term deal.. it's going to cost you. This wasn't the case.

It was moreso Treliving's stubborness about the actual quality of the flames roster that made him make this giant head scratcher of a move.

They needed the cap space right then to try to continue to compete.
They weren't willing to wait for him to walk.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Huberdeau had led the team for almost a decade with virtually no real success. Barkov came in, took over the room and culture, and Huberdeau really started succeeding under no pressure. Then, with Barkov leading the charge, the team took in some playoff experience, and saw that Huberdeau wasn't really showing up in those big games. That's when they decided to pivot away from him.

We were forced to pivot away from two of our undisputed offensive drivers. The player we traded for Huberdeau was also a key playoff performer for us. Further, we also lost at the same time our real offensive player, RIP. Really, it would be like the Panthers trading Huberdeau and Barkov in the same season. If we'd lost just one we might be able to produce a similar on ice product. But both?!

Tkachuk actually wasn't great in the playoffs for the Flames.
2018-2019: 2-1 in 5 games
2019-2020: 1-1 in 6 games
2021-2022: 4-6 in 12 games. Better but 3 of the goals were in game 1 v. the Oilers. He was a non factor for most of that series.

[calumniate]

Alright I'm sold. Let's re-sign Tre!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Tkachuk actually wasn't great in the playoffs for the Flames.
2018-2019: 2-1 in 5 games
2019-2020: 1-1 in 6 games
2021-2022: 4-6 in 12 games. Better but 3 of the goals were in game 1 v. the Oilers. He was a non factor for most of that series.

Yeah the big narrative of that offseason was "Gaudreau and Tkachuk weren't great in the playoffs anyways, with Kadri, Huberdeau, Weegar, and Toffoli for the full season the Flames might be built better for the playoffs"

It's why for young players you always need to be careful of the "he doesn't perform in the playoffs" label, small sample sizes create bad decisions.

With Monahan I get why Treliving did it to try to keep the window open, but I wasn't a fan of it at the time. Moving a first for a guy who was a heart and soul player for this team was always a mistake.

I've heard it was a bit of an issue where Monahan didn't want to be on LTIR, and Sutter didn't really have him in the plans, some tension there with how Monahan was used in the 21-22 season (mostly 4th line minutes), and how his season ended.

[dino7c]

Panthers goalie going from 10M backup worst contract in the league to top 5 goalie was as big a factor as anything for the Panthers. Also Reinhart was their top goal scorer brought in via trade. They made some good moves but were also fortunate...they were trying to pay someone to take Bob before the first cup run.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

That's ignoring the "people" side that you, Bingo, like to champion the most. Monahan is an amazing person. He was a home grown talent. He fit in here, he was part of the community here. We rode him until he was broken, seemingly didn't prioritize him getting well, and then drummed him out of town at his lowest possible value... As potentially the best center we've ever drafted?

It makes no sense and is hellaciously disrespectful. Not people focused.

Was pretty straight forward in saying it was the wrong move, and I wish he didn't do it.

I was right on board in defending Monahan when people were dumping all over him.

As I said ... Treliving attacks are over the top. I stand by that.

[CliffFletcher]

All of this Treliving vs Conroy stuff assumes far too much power concentrated in the role of GM. Every major decision the Flames have made in recent years was discussed and arrived at by a group of 5 or 6 hockey ops executives, most of whom bridged both GM’s tenures. NHL management these days is a collaborative business, and the transition from the Treliving regime to Conroy has not been the clean break many fans around here seem to imagine.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What bothers me is that Montreal was already getting a 1st to take on a bad contract and I don't understand how they were in any position to demand the earlier of the Flames two first round picks. If anything the condition should have been that the Flames would keep the earlier pick as a first round pick of any sort was a steep price to pay for the Flames. I just think the guy was a little reckless at the end fully knowing he had one foot out the door.

I'm just not a conspiracy guy.

Treliving doesn't have a terrible human being background. Nothing to support he a) wouldn't be smart enough to drive the best bargain he could or b) was tanking a franchise on the way out

Both are silly.

He felt that the team was closer than it was, and felt moving an asset to free up cap space to add Kadri would make them a contender.

He was wrong.

But the rest is way over the top in my opinion.

[calumniate]

I guess I haven't looked through this thread enough to understand the vitriol that you guys are referring to. Maybe I'll avoid that!