[Trade] Frost + Farabee from PHI to CGY for Pelletier + Kuzmenko + 25 2nd + 28 7th

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Buff

Craig Conroy is a deal maker. He gets deals done. How many times did we hear about his predecessor being in on a deal but it just didn't happen? You'll hear that about all GMs but it was getting tiring to hear that the Flames were in on all these players but the price was too prohibitive. Yet, here we are, Conroy finds himself in a position to put his own stamp on the team and he identifies what he needs to do and he makes it happen.

He won't hit homeruns on every deal but he makes deals.

Biggest difference between Conroy and basically any other GM in Flames history is his refusal to mortgage the future to push for the playoffs. This trade could have easily included a first rounder from the Flames, Flyers were probably pushing for it, but Conroy didn't bite. If Treliving had made this trade I think the 1st would have been gone without question. I'm still not sold on the Flames being a legit playoff team and it would suck to finish 9th yet again in what was supposed to be a rebuilding year, but at least with Conroy at the helm I'm confident that the team will continue to get better and not simply tread water for another decade

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

What did Naz say that worried the other poster?

I think it was a mis-read by that poster tbh. Naz said it sucks, but it was more along the lines of it being rough for young guys who fall in love with the city and their teammates to be traded for the first time.

He wasn’t saying it sucks for the team. Just that it sucks for the young guys and, as a veteran despite having seen it a lot, it sucks to see them go through it.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Regarding some of the unflattering trade grades, people should be cognizant of the fact that the Flames acquired two players who have had struggles this year and look to project as middle of the roster players.

I do think Conroy got great value out of this deal though. Its a reward for the team for being in the playoff mix that bolsters the roster without having to spend major assets to acquire them.

Overall I think its more positive than negative, but even a C+ grade is fair to me. I think the Flames can slot guys better into their roster now (no more Sharangovich at C and no more Kuzmenko on the 4L) and the Flames gave up very little of consequence to get these two players (even if you really liked Pelletier, I think Frost and Farabee are upgrades)

[CaptainCrunch]

Maybe Conroys outgoing and positive personality helps him make deals happen. Could be an underrated ability to have in a GM.

More like


We see Briere on the phone, he looks exhausted


Briere - "Yeah uhuh, yeah. You know Craig you've been talking for 16 hours, my family they're . . . . . "


5 hours pass, Briere is eating snicker bars.


Briere - "I love talking to you, I really do, but what do I have to do to get you to stop talking?, Huh, Frost and Farabee for Pelltier and Kuz . . . not even close buddy . . ."


Looks at his assistant and groans, "He's talking about fishing"


Briere - "Craig Craig Craig, just fill in the trade form and send it in and I'll sign off on it, bye"


Hands the phone up

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by devo22

until Zary is healthy:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Pospisil
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Farabee - Frost - Sharangovich
Lomberg - Rooney - Klapka

once Zary is healthy:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Zary - Frost - Farabee
Lomberg - Pospisil - Klapka

or maybe Lomberg - Rooney - Pospisil as the 4th line. Could simply put Zary with Huberdeau and Kadri as well. Either way, I like that top 9 depth a lot ... definitely a deeper offense now than it was yesterday.

I really don’t want to stop developing Zary as a center. He was looking really good in that spot and usually, when you move young players off of that position it makes it difficult for them to ever develop properly as a center later. My preference would be to use this opportunity to completely redo the 4th line which has been the weakest line:

Huberdeau-Kadri-Posposil
Sharangovich-Zary-Coronato
Farabee-Frost-Klapka
Lomberg-Backlund-Coleman

You can roll all four lines this way and not really need to shorten the bench in the 3rd. Backlund and Coleman would still be on the penalty kill so their minutes won’t suffer much. Would love to see what Zary and Coronato can do together on a line.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think it was a mis-read by that poster tbh. Naz said it sucks, but it was more along the lines of it being rough for young guys who fall in love with the city and their teammates to be traded for the first time.

He wasn’t saying it sucks for the team. Just that it sucks for the young guys and, as a veteran despite having seen it a lot, it sucks to see them go through it.

thank you!

[bigrangy]

My analysis of how this came together based on the rumors and Conroy’s presser:

Kuzmenko for Frost plus minus some picks was agreed as a base
Philly really wanted to be rid of Farabee due to concerns about performance vs contract
Conroy realized that Farabee would likely push Pelletier back to waivers, so he was added to the deal
Then picks were added to balance

This is why Pelletier wasn’t scratched pre-game like Kuzmenko was, I think it all came together late.



Overall, my thoughts: wow was it cheap to pick up two established, young, and not even that expensive middle six forwards, especially with one being a skilled center. It’s hard to be disappointed when it’s such a low risk move.

Since I’m constantly a downer though, this does leave me a little dissatisfied. There’s one less asset in the bank (the 2nd) to go after a real long term solution for a right handed premium forward. As well, since they’ve made this move, they’re probably not realistically going to make another big move for a while. This trade could have been dreaming too small. (This is just a downer take to offer perspective, regardless of everything said here this was still a worthwhile move)

It’s kind of like the first Toffoli trade from Montreal. It was a different time of course, but similar. Value was great, they traded very little for a guy who would end up leading the team in scoring, but it prevented them from making a bigger move and going after a bigger fish.

I believe in both Frost’s and Farabee’s upside, hopefully they can fit in great and really pop like most Flyers fans seem to think they will. But I imagine this takes the Flames out of any trade for Cozens/Rossi/Pettersson/Miller etc if they were even in the convo for those.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by devo22

I get it. But if I'm Huska, there's no way I'm breaking up the Coleman-Backlund-Coronato line. And yeah, he's getting older, but Backlund is not a 4th line center at this point.

With Kadri, Backlund and Frost all being natural centers and Zary working well on the wing before, I just wouldn't overcomplicate things right now. I can definitely see them push Backlund down next year and pencil in Zary at C then, though.

Where is the law that the '4th line center' has to be bad? Depth down the middle is how you win.

Kadri
Zary
Frost
Backlund

is insane - you have a good centerman on the ice for the entire 60 minutes - how many teams can say that?

We need one more player (Stromgren?) and we could have a lineup with no 4th line:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Farabee
???????? - Zary - Coronato
Sharangovich - Frost - Pospisil
Coleman - Backlund - Klapka
Lomberg

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yup.

Followed by years of regret.

yeah. I could absolutely see him go on a bit of a heater (unless Torts puts him in the dog house right away, which is possible), but he just can't sustain it. I shudder to think that those 14 goals and 25 points in 29 games for us last season could have resulted in a terrible, terrible contract ... massive bullet dodged.

[Claes]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Plus Lomberg - Pospisil - Klapka is not a fun line to play against, but also with Pospisil and Klapka there is some offensive skill there too.



Could be a bit of a matchup nightmare for other 4th lines with their combination of size, speed, grit, and skill.

That's a very punishing forecheck!

Skickat från min SM-A526B via Tapatalk

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by devo22

I get it. But if I'm Huska, there's no way I'm breaking up the Coleman-Backlund-Coronato line. And yeah, he's getting older, but Backlund is not a 4th line center at this point.

With Kadri, Backlund and Frost all being natural centers and Zary working well on the wing before, I just wouldn't overcomplicate things right now. I can definitely see them push Backlund down next year and pencil in Zary at C then, though.

Huska could also abandon the idea of a "4th line".

Now:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Farabee - Frost - Klapka
Lomberg - Rooney - Pospisil

On Zary's return:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Sharangovich
Coleman - Backlund - Coronato
Farabee - Frost - Klapka
Lomberg - Zary - Pospisil

Run the lines more balanced minutes. Backlund can continue to get the defensive zone starts while Kadri gets more of the offensive zone starts. Then let the top players get their extra minutes through special teams.

[Yeah_Baby]

could also use Frost for face offs in either zone and then get him off quicky.
He's now our best face off man.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Regarding some of the unflattering trade grades, people should be cognizant of the fact that the Flames acquired two players who have had struggles this year and look to project as middle of the roster players.

I do think Conroy got great value out of this deal though. Its a reward for the team for being in the playoff mix that bolsters the roster without having to spend major assets to acquire them.

Overall I think its more positive than negative, but even a C+ grade is fair to me. I think the Flames can slot guys better into their roster now (no more Sharangovich at C and no more Kuzmenko on the 4L) and the Flames gave up very little of consequence to get these two players (even if you really liked Pelletier, I think Frost and Farabee are upgrades)

I don’t really see how it is a C+ unless it is looked at through the lens that the Flames should be rebuilding. They turned a guy who was not in the long terms plans and a player who hadn’t established themselves yet. Pure trade value wise it is killer and it’s one of those trades that would have been laughed at if proposed by fans.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

More like


We see Briere on the phone, he looks exhausted


Briere - "Yeah uhuh, yeah. You know Craig you've been talking for 16 hours, my family they're . . . . . "


5 hours pass, Briere is eating snicker bars.


Briere - "I love talking to you, I really do, but what do I have to do to get you to stop talking?, Huh, Frost and Farabee for Pelltier and Kuz . . . not even close buddy . . ."


Looks at his assistant and groans, "He's talking about fishing"


Briere - "Craig Craig Craig, just fill in the trade form and send it in and I'll sign off on it, bye"


Hands the phone up

Things I'll file under "never happened". Mods need to better counter the disinformation from fake insiders imo.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don’t really see how it is a C+ unless it is looked at through the lens that the Flames should be rebuilding. They turned a guy who was not in the long terms plans and a player who hadn’t established themselves yet. Pure trade value wise it is killer and it’s one of those trades that would have been laughed at if proposed by fans.

If the idea that the Flames getting great value for the deal should bump it up a bit I can get on board with that. For me, I can see the side that it may not really move the needle for the team for the rest of the season or going forward.

Either way, I think it was a smart trade. They got better today and gave up some fringe forwards and a 2nd to do it.

[scotty2hotty]

It would have been a deal breaker for Treliving. He would have demanded Philly take back a 1st in the deal.

[Braden]

I am very hopeful for the fit of these guys in Calgary. But a little part of me is jealous of the Flyers 7 draft picks in the first 2 rounds this year. Seems kinda clear to me it's kind of a tank/rebuild move for them.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Braden

I am very hopeful for the fit of these guys in Calgary. But a little part of me is jealous of the Flyers 7 draft picks in the first 2 rounds this year. Seems kinda clear to me it's kind of a tank/rebuild move for them.

It would suck to give up 2 guys who played at a 50pt pace in the past and are 24 and 25 and getting a 24 year old who cleared waivers earlier this year and a 2nd.

Friedman said on 32 thoughts the Flames almost waived Kuzy a couple weeks ago

[devo22]

the trade thread in the Flyers subforum on hfboards is gold. They hate everything right from the get go and it gradually gets worse from there once the details start trickling in. Have to feel for them with FO seemingly laser focused on appeasing Torts ... and then bringing in Kuzmenko of all players. Woof.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

My analysis of how this came together based on the rumors and Conroy’s presser:

Kuzmenko for Frost plus minus some picks was agreed as a base
Philly really wanted to be rid of Farabee due to concerns about performance vs contract
Conroy realized that Farabee would likely push Pelletier back to waivers, so he was added to the deal
Then picks were added to balance

This is why Pelletier wasn’t scratched pre-game like Kuzmenko was, I think it all came together late.

This seems very very close.
Started out as 1 for 1 Frost for Kuzmenko + pick, both sides started talking additions and it quickly turned into a Farabee for Pelletier swap. 7th was clearly the EA25 throw it to get it across the finish line.