Vancouver is No Good 3

[activeStick]

The Globe and Mail article with all of Rutherford's comments.

https://archive.md/2025.01.28-163059...son-jt-miller/

And also, not sure where this guy got the comment from, but it had Rutherford saying that if the Canucks "start over" it means that Hughes also goes.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1884282806878241057

[CroFlames]

Imagine having a prime Quinn Hughes, Demko and Petterson and you can't figure out how to build a functioning squad around them.

Especially Hughes. Top 2 defenseman in the league.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don't understand the upside in Rutherford coming out and basically acknowledging the issue. That won't seem to help in netting a good return, unless he's trying to push Miller to open up what trades he will accept to, to be wider.

Basically though it's another failed core. I thought they had all the pieces: A #1 goalie (Demko), a #1 elite dman (Hughes) and a #1 centre (EP).

It has all fallen apart except Hughes, who's future with the franchise also has to be uncertain unless they figure htis out.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by activeStick

We can agree to disagree that Tocchet's system is the reason for Vancouver's struggles, including Pettersson's. I don't agree that Tocchet doesn't want his players making skilled plays at all, especially when you see Hughes do it all the time leaving the point, driving into the slot and doing something crazy skilled to score.

It's not that he doesn't want the players making skilled plays. It's where he wants the players to make those plays. Petterson's biggest weapon was the quick move at the line. That's the type of play Tocchet wants gone. A move deep in the zone is fine, but those are a lot harder to make since you're much less likely to be doing that at speed.

Originally Posted by activeStick

Like he did the other night with his Crosby-esque backhand. If Tocchet was against his players doing skilled things to score goals, he wouldn't praise Hughes as much as he does to the media on these exact plays, referencing the skill of Quinn and creativity.

He also goes to the media and says that Quinn tries to do too much and needs to reel it in.

Originally Posted by activeStick

We hear fans blame mystery injuries all the time on a players performance, while actual doctors deem the player healthy and good to play.

Which isn't the case here. He has tendonitis in his knee. The doctors agree. The GM agrees. Tocchet was the only one to say that he doesn't think it played a role.

Originally Posted by activeStick

If he's hurt shut him down and let him recover.

Correct.

Originally Posted by activeStick

Not saying he's definitely not hurt, but if his struggles come down to a) Tocchet's system, b) Pettersson's injuries and c) Tocchet commenting on those apparent injuries in a way that's hurting Pettersson, it would be the perfect storm with no blame on the player and all the blame on the coach who happens to be the 3rd coach in 3 or 4 years for this core.

Tocchet's system is affecting more than just Pettersson. There's a post on reddit by someone who did a lot of number crunching and leg work on this. The only players that have actually seen their underlying numbers go up over the now two years of Tocchet are muckers and grinders. All the skill guys are down, this despite how hot the Canucks were to start last year.

Tocchet doubting Pettersson's injury probably didn't help his confidence, but Pettersson needs to get out of his own head on that one.


Edit - Buckfoston_ is a Taj clone and will make things up. If that statement isn't in the article it's very likely Rutherford didn't say it. Then again, him and Allvin like saying stupid #### so distinctly possible. How Joey Kenward has a job is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't understand the upside in Rutherford coming out and basically acknowledging the issue. That won't seem to help in netting a good return, unless he's trying to push Miller to open up what trades he will accept to, to be wider.

Welcome to this entire season. Allvin and Rutherford seem to show up to say things that we've all been taught that management and coaches shouldn't say

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't understand the upside in Rutherford coming out and basically acknowledging the issue. That won't seem to help in netting a good return, unless he's trying to push Miller to open up what trades he will accept to, to be wider.

Basically though it's another failed core. I thought they had all the pieces: A #1 goalie (Demko), a #1 elite dman (Hughes) and a #1 centre (EP).

It has all fallen apart except Hughes, who's future with the franchise also has to be uncertain unless they figure htis out.

Seems like Rutherford is just showing the entire table this hand....Maybe he's trying to get more bidders and start a frenzy? At the end of the day, it's still the highest bidder that likely gets the trade.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by blankall

Seems like Rutherford is just showing the entire table this hand....Maybe he's trying to get more bidders and start a frenzy? At the end of the day, it's still the highest bidder that likely gets the trade.

Doesn't make a difference when someone else holds one or two or your cards.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Lol. No one has ever said they get along great. Their issues aren't why the team is struggling but that the team is struggling is why we are putting a magnifying glass over their issues. If the Canucks win four or five in a row or go on a huge win percentage streak all this talk will disappear again.

Rutherford just said when there's too much going on in the room it's hard for everyone to concentrate on what they're supposed to do, so yeah these issues are a huge part of why they're struggling. And you want to keep both of these guys??? They have to trade both, and they will.

[activeStick]

I wonder if Rutherford coming out and laying everything out like he is, is to prepare Canuck fans for what he believes will be unsatisfactory returns en route to a complete rebuild and restart. Let them know the trades absolutely need to happen. The players have tried to fix it, but they can't. Management has tried everything, but the players themselves are unwilling. It may soften the blowback if they indeed move both guys and are eventually unable to convince Hughes to stick around in 2 years.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by chummer

Rutherford just said when there's too much going on in the room it's hard for everyone to concentrate on what they're supposed to do, so yeah these issues are a huge part of why they're struggling. And you want to keep both of these guys??? They have to trade both, and they will.

Rutherford says lots of things. Most of it to direct away from the fact this team has one of the worst d-cores in the NHL despite having the best defense man in the NHL.

Pettersson and Miller's issues with one another are not this bad. The media scrutiny from it is. If the team starts winning, suddenly it all goes away. But pointing out Desharnais and Forbort were probably not the best choices will get no where near the media clicks and attention as a salacious "they're constantly fighting" story. They're not. Like even without delving into things I hear personally, look at every interview former players give when asked about this. "They don't get along, but it isn't this bad" is the common response. The only person who has said it's actually that bad is Boudreau and he said that as a guy who is now a full-time media personality and is unlikely to coach again.

Originally Posted by activeStick

I wonder if Rutherford coming out and laying everything out like he is, is to prepare Canuck fans for what he believes will be unsatisfactory returns en route to a complete rebuild and restart. Let them know the trades absolutely need to happen. The players have tried to fix it, but they can't. Management has tried everything, but the players themselves are unwilling. It may soften the blowback if they indeed move both guys and are eventually unable to convince Hughes to stick around in 2 years.

"I am willing to hold on to the players if I don't get a good trade" is a great way to calm the fans before making a bad trade because that's all you have...

[Beninho]

What a #### show!

I feel bad for their fans…

Oh wait I don’t think I do.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Beninho

What a #### show!

what did you expect from a team run by Casino Tocchet and JT Wentworth.

They should have traded him the first time he asked for a trade.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Lol. No one has ever said they get along great. Their issues aren't why the team is struggling but that the team is struggling is why we are putting a magnifying glass over their issues. If the Canucks win four or five in a row or go on a huge win percentage streak all this talk will disappear again.

Wait, winning creates chemistry? I thought it was the other way around.

[dino7c]

they deserve it for letting the Oilers get past them when they had the series lead...thanks a lot. Second round loss would have been the end of the Oilers as we know it IMO.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

they deserve it for letting the Oilers get past them when they had the series lead...thanks a lot. Second round loss would have been the end of the Oilers as we know it IMO.

Pettersson's career moment.

Getting walked by an Oilers rookie with a 2nd round series on the line. Of course, Demko was injured as usual.

[dino7c]

Demko isn't reliable...time to move on

[Erick Estrada]

So much drama with that organization. Trading Miller will likely make them worse, not better. I also don't think that Petterson is ever going to flourish under Tocchet so the team's issues seem pretty deep and complicated.

[Bonded]

Rutherford should have hit one of the Canes trades

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Rutherford says lots of things. Most of it to direct away from the fact this team has one of the worst d-cores in the NHL despite having the best defense man in the NHL.

I don't think you can say that any defenseman in the NHL is as good as Cale Makar.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Buff

I don't think you can say that any defenseman in the NHL is as good as Cale Makar.

I love Makar...but Hughes is right there.

Originally Posted by Bonded

Rutherford should have hit one of the Canes trades

Maybe I'm crazy but the Canes should still be trying to get Miller IMO. When I look at how they've deployed their top 9 after the Rantanen trade:

Rantanen - Aho - Blake
Hall - Kotkaniemi - Svechnikov
Martinook - Staal - Jarvis

If you could find a way to upgrade Kotkaniemi to Miller then I think you're the cup favourites.

Kotkaniemi + 1st + ??? for Miller

If I'm Carolina I'm trying to win a cup and I'm doing it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I love Makar...but Hughes is right there.

Hughes also seems more cerebral. IMO Hughes has more potential to get better going into his late 20s and 30s.