Vancouver is No Good 3

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You play like ####, you get benched. It's not overly shocking. But really what did he miss out out? Five or six more shifts of dumping the puck in, mucking it up on the wall to try and move the puck back to the point? Then you hope and pray it was to Hughes or Hronek otherwise that puck is just going back to the corner you mucked it out of.

Miller has looked like ####, but so has every other skill player. It's not a coincidence.

I don't watch as much Canucks as you but isn't part of the issue here that Miller potentially feels singled out.

Pettersson has bad games, Boeser has bad games, Hronek has some terrible games...but I've not heard about those guys being benched (maybe they are and I just don't hear about it).

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't watch as much Canucks as you but isn't part of the issue here that Miller potentially feels singled out.

Pettersson has bad games, Boeser has bad games, Hronek has some terrible games...but I've not heard about those guys being benched (maybe they are and I just don't hear about it).

They don't have blatant "controller un plugged" standing still and watching moments. They look like ####, but the effort is there. Miller just straight up stops playing. We've had two or three shifts this season that look a lot like the shift that got Pierre Luc Dubois shipped out of Columbus the next day.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Well I think the Canucks should really take their time and sort out how to handle this..

Not the time to be impulsive!

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Now the team doesn't have the personnel on the back-end to keep that strong defensive posture and our elite goaltender is just getting into training camp form in January.

Rutherford/Allvin thinking that Forbort and Desharnais would suffice was always puzzling.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Rutherford/Allvin thinking that Forbort and Desharnais would suffice was always puzzling.

They could use someone like a Tyson Barrie.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Rutherford/Allvin thinking that Forbort and Desharnais would suffice was always puzzling.

The thinking was that Carson Soucy was going to be the Carson Soucy they saw last year who was an amazing player for the cost and the role he was needed to play.


Turns out that Carson Soucy was a one year thing. They couldn't give the contract to Zadorov that Zadorov got, but letting Ian Cole walk is looking like a massive mistake even if he was clearly cooked by the end of the season. Just play him every other game or something.

[SuperMatt18]

A team like Vancouver is probably the team that should have been in on Jake Walman instead of San Jose.

[Blaster86]

Fabbro. Deangelo, if you can get past the fact he's a racist #### head. Walman.

I think there have been 7 - 10 players since August that would have been massive help over what we have.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Not like DeAngelo would exactly be a fish out of water in Vancouver from what I hear about Vancouver.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Tocchet turned out to be the coach I thought he would be when he was hired. He's the guy that coached all the skill and joy out of OEL and has appeared to do the same thing here for everyone not named Quinn Hughes.


Rick Tocchet is a great assistant coach when someone else has the final call. He does not know how to embrace and coach talented players.

I think that the Canucks last year were a bit of a mirage, there were a number of games where they were outplayed and yet managed to get by based primarily upon goaltending. That is great when it works but if you have an inconsistent goaltender or an injury prone goaltender it can lead to disaster.

They should be a better team than their record indicates right now, but they are at best a middle of the pack team who have relied on loser points to get them to where they are right now. At this point trading Miller seems like the best thing to do as long as they don't get back dead money contracts like OEL who they are still paying off for the next 3 years.

That is to say that I have given up on this season as being one for the Canucks to make waves. Even if they somehow make it into the playoffs they will be easy pickings for a better team.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Not like DeAngelo would exactly be a fish out of water in Vancouver from what I hear about Vancouver.

Post of the year so far.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You play like ####, you get benched. It's not overly shocking. But really what did he miss out out? Five or six more shifts of dumping the puck in, mucking it up on the wall to try and move the puck back to the point? Then you hope and pray it was to Hughes or Hronek otherwise that puck is just going back to the corner you mucked it out of.

Miller has looked like ####, but so has every other skill player. It's not a coincidence.

Yeah, not buying it at all. A pretty skilled guy named Quinn Hughes is making things happen whenever he's on the ice while playing in the same system and structure, putting himself and his teammates on the ice at the same time in positions to score. This is without mentioning that Pettersson was producing for a whole bunch of games (maybe like 70ish) under this very same coach and the very same system before he then disappeared for what's now a full year, and counting.

It isn't coaching, it's the player.

[OILFAN #81]

Vancouver President says he's lost faith in fixing the relationship between his 2 best forwards. Yikes.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/rutherford-no...rift-1.2243046

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Yeah, not buying it at all. A pretty skilled guy named Quinn Hughes is making things happen whenever he's on the ice while playing in the same system and structure, putting himself and his teammates on the ice at the same time in positions to score. This is without mentioning that Pettersson was producing for a whole bunch of games (maybe like 70ish) under this very same coach and the very same system before he then disappeared for what's now a full year, and counting.

It isn't coaching, it's the player.

You're not buying what?

The Canucks system this year is different from what they played for much of last year. This system is very much designed around creating off-the-rush chances because that was something the Canucks struggled with and is the way most goals are scored in the play-offs. If there is nothing on the rush they don't want the players holding it into the zone, they want the puck in deep. Adopting this system with no real back-end puck movers or skaters was a big part of why the team was so leaky for odd-man rushes against to start the season.

Unfortunately this core has never been a rush chance team (which is part of the reason for trying to create it). So a lot of the time the team is getting to the blue-line and putting the puck in deep and going to dig it out. The plan when you dig it out is to then move the puck back to the point.

Tocchet doesn't want players like Pettersson (or anyone) making a skilled, possibly high-risk play near the line. He also doesn't want Hughes doing it. You will see both of them dump the puck in at the blue line if a rush chance isn't obvious. The difference is, these are the kind of plays Pettersson made his hay with at the beginning of his career, a quick move at or inside the line to create space.

The one big thing this system does in the team's favour is regularly puts the puck on Quinn Hughes' stick in the offensive zone. The issue is there are usually at-least four other dmen on the team who can't handle the puck so it's often just a dump right back to the same corner the players dug the puck out of.

Is Pettersson's confidence being shot all on the coach? No. He has also been hurt, though his coach coming out and saying that he doesn't think the injury is real probably doesn't help. In the end he'll need to be mentally stronger, but Tocchet contributing to the obliteration of the confidence of skill players isn't a new thing. The only Canucks who have maintained an increase in underlying advanced stats are the guys who want to muck it up along the wall. This is the same way it was in Arizona.

[chummer]

So much for blaming the media for the rift in the locker room between Miller and Pettersson, turns out they were right all along. They'll both have to go now, what a mess for the Canucks.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by chummer

So much for blaming the media for the rift in the locker room between Miller and Pettersson, turns out they were right all along. They'll both have to go now, what a mess for the Canucks.

Lol. No one has ever said they get along great. Their issues aren't why the team is struggling but that the team is struggling is why we are putting a magnifying glass over their issues. If the Canucks win four or five in a row or go on a huge win percentage streak all this talk will disappear again.

Canucks HO messaging continues to be some of the biggest problems within the organization. The head of communication needs to be fired yesterday. Then again, this has been a great distraction for the fact Allvin and Rutherford thought Desharnais and Forbort were going to replace Ian Cole and Zadorov.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Lol.


No one has ever said they get along great. Their issues aren't why the team is struggling but that the team is struggling is why we are putting a magnifying glass over their issues. If the Canucks win four or five in a row or go on a huge win percentage streak all this talk will disappear again.



Canucks HO messaging continues to be some of the biggest problems within the organization. The head of communication needs to be fired yesterday.

What would your preference be they do at the deadline? Deal Miller?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by chummer

So much for blaming the media for the rift in the locker room between Miller and Pettersson, turns out they were right all along. They'll both have to go now, what a mess for the Canucks.

Seems like neither Miller nor Pettersson has the ability to be professional and put the team ahead of their personal beefs. Both desperately want to be on a winning team but can't see how it's their own personality flaws that are stopping the Canucks from being that winning team.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe they both need to be on teams where they are a member of the chorus and not the focal points? Put both players on a team where they are clearly the 3rd or 4th best forward? That way neither's personality will begin to overwhelm the system.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

What would your preference be they do at the deadline? Deal Miller?

Deal Boeser and Suter. Try and find a dman or four in the off-season. Keep Miller and Pettersson.

Realistically, Miller has now asked out so I'd prefer just Miller. Trading Pettersson at the lowest he will ever be at 26 years old is... insane.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You're not buying what?

The Canucks system this year is different from what they played for much of last year. This system is very much designed around creating off-the-rush chances because that was something the Canucks struggled with and is the way most goals are scored in the play-offs. If there is nothing on the rush they don't want the players holding it into the zone, they want the puck in deep. Adopting this system with no real back-end puck movers or skaters was a big part of why the team was so leaky for odd-man rushes against to start the season.

Unfortunately this core has never been a rush chance team (which is part of the reason for trying to create it). So a lot of the time the team is getting to the blue-line and putting the puck in deep and going to dig it out. The plan when you dig it out is to then move the puck back to the point.

Tocchet doesn't want players like Pettersson (or anyone) making a skilled, possibly high-risk play near the line. He also doesn't want Hughes doing it. You will see both of them dump the puck in at the blue line if a rush chance isn't obvious. The difference is, these are the kind of plays Pettersson made his hay with at the beginning of his career, a quick move at or inside the line to create space.

The one big thing this system does in the team's favour is regularly puts the puck on Quinn Hughes' stick in the offensive zone. The issue is there are usually at-least four other dmen on the team who can't handle the puck so it's often just a dump right back to the same corner the players dug the puck out of.

Is Pettersson's confidence being shot all on the coach? No. He has also been hurt, though his coach coming out and saying that he doesn't think the injury is real probably doesn't help. In the end he'll need to be mentally stronger, but Tocchet contributing to the obliteration of the confidence of skill players isn't a new thing. The only Canucks who have maintained an increase in underlying advanced stats are the guys who want to muck it up along the wall. This is the same way it was in Arizona.

We can agree to disagree that Tocchet's system is the reason for Vancouver's struggles, including Pettersson's. I don't agree that Tocchet doesn't want his players making skilled plays at all, especially when you see Hughes do it all the time leaving the point, driving into the slot and doing something crazy skilled to score.

Like he did the other night with his Crosby-esque backhand. If Tocchet was against his players doing skilled things to score goals, he wouldn't praise Hughes as much as he does to the media on these exact plays, referencing the skill of Quinn and creativity.

We hear fans blame mystery injuries all the time on a players performance, while actual doctors deem the player healthy and good to play. If he's hurt shut him down and let him recover. Not saying he's definitely not hurt, but if his struggles come down to a) Tocchet's system, b) Pettersson's injuries and c) Tocchet commenting on those apparent injuries in a way that's hurting Pettersson, it would be the perfect storm with no blame on the player and all the blame on the coach who happens to be the 3rd coach in 3 or 4 years for this core.