2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by zukes

Oh? Now their model is okay? They haven't tanked. Pick a lane. Of course if you can find a D'Angelo type player (not person) you can trade Andersson. But as I've stated before:

- I do not see Andersson as the type of d-man whose value craters in his early 30's.

- He is a top 20 - 50 defenseman in the league, which despite what many here will tell you, makes him a TOP pairing d-man!

- You can hope that the magic beans you get turn into a younger version Andersson and maybe even more, but just as likely, perhaps even more likely, the prospects/picks don't add up and you've just traded a top pairing defenseman who has at least 4 prime years left and a couple years of maybe slow decline for no reason other than to "get younger".

- Andersson, if around, will be a factor when this team is ready to compete, and be a leader as well.

Just on a roll hey. I did not say anything about me wanting us to be like Carolina, I said it's been brought up by a few people even the ones liking your posts that we should be following a Carolina model in continuing to bring in more picks.

Someone said you can't do that because of contract limits, and obviously you can't sign every prospect you draft. So, my questions were how they keep drafting lots.

It's been answered they use the extra prospects and picks to add to the team when they are ready to compete and let the old UFA like an Andersson Walk. Our situation is more unique because we are not in a competitive window that we can just walk a guy like him to UFA, so a trade becomes a bit more urgent in the offseason.

I personally feel lik ehe is a player that is going to drop off and it becomes an ugly contract for a guy that isn't your #1.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They've also used used prospect and draft capital to acquire a rental (Guentzel), and re-signed vets.

Kind of what I have been saying. We are in the stage of accumulating assets under Conroy. Having extra picks in 23/24 and 25/26 after we picked twice with Treliving in 22.

23 right now is showing some mixed results, but lots of time. 24 is showing great promise but lots of time.

Once that base is built back up, and you have more picks you can spend in the system and the team becomes competitive we can make our Guentzel trade and even try signing him.

I will say it does seem like for a team that wants to win now Carolina does let a lot of now players walk.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I agree that Carolina is a model that I think the Flames should (and are) emulating to some degree.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I share this same sentiment.

I also agree with Pinder in the theory of trading Andersson has more value then signing him to a 8x9M contract.
He's going to be good for about 2-3 more years of that contract and then will fall off significantly, I'm not sure I want to be paying a 35y.o defenseman 9M to put up 35-45 points at best.

I am not convinced that he would be signed to a 9M x 8 . I think in reality it is closer to a 7.5M x 8

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Maybe, maybe not. Detroit might have given up the 15th overall but I am guessing most of the offers still would have been protected 25 1sts. When is the last time a player like Andersson was traded for a pick at a draft.

Well big trades rarely happen at any time in the NHL so it's always tough to find comparable.

Closest comparable trades around the draft would have been:

Hamilton: 15th OV + 45th + 52nd
Trouba: 2019 1st (20th OV) , Neal Pionk
Jones + 32 Overall for Boqvist, 12th overall, 2022 1st, 2021 2nd
Sergachev: Moser, Geekie, 2nd, 7th

Nobody is making a move as bad as the Jones trade again (great job Stan Bowman!) but the Trouba and Sergachev deals are kind of the framework I think.

Both Moser and Pionk have been great for Tampa and Winnipeg respectively and that's the type of deal you want to make. Get some assets (Geekie/1st) on top of a piece that actually isn't as big of a downgrade on the piece you moved out as you would have thought.

Like I look back to the 2024 draft and if you could have gotten Walman + 15th OV pick + 2024 2nd (53rd OV) that would probably be looked back at as a huge win. Walman is probably actually outplaying Andersson this year. Hage was on the board so Flames would have a high end center prospect in the system. And names like Leo Sahlin Wallenius, Teddy Stiga, Carter George were still there at 53.

As an aside I still can't believe Yzerman though he was so desperate to move out a top 4 dman in Walman, and clear out his $3.4M salary, that he attached the 53rd OV pick to him.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I am not convinced that he would be signed to a 9M x 8 . I think in reality it is closer to a 7.5M x 8

I agree, that should be the absolute top end of what he should get at this point, and the Hanifin and Theodore contracts highlight that. I like the guy, but he's not a 9M dollar defensemen in any way.

His last two seasons haven't been great.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well big trades rarely happen at any time in the NHL so it's always tough to find comparable.

Closest comparable trades around the draft would have been:

Hamilton: 15th OV + 45th + 52nd
Trouba: 2019 1st (20th OV) , Neal Pionk
Jones + 32 Overall for Boqvist, 12th overall, 2022 2st, 2021 2nd
Sergachev: Moser, Geekie, 2nd, 7th

If we could pull off something like that, and Andersson is a the better player.

You get into the conversation of one of the centers falling, get a prospect and 2 extra 2nds.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I agree, that should be the absolute top end of what he should get at this point, and the Hanifin and Theodore contracts highlight that. I like the guy, but he's not a 9M dollar defensemen in any way.

His last two seasons haven't been great.

Why you say that?

I see it as well, and the fancy stats all confirm it but I have been told this is not the case.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

If we could pull off something like that, and Andersson is a the better player.

You get into the conversation of one of the centers falling, get a prospect and 2 extra 2nds.

I don't think that trade is happening again...that trade was:

Jones
2021 32nd OV (Nolan Allen)

for

Boqvist (2018 8th OV)
2021 12th OV (Cole Sillinger)
2021 44th OV (Aleski Heimosalmi)
2022 1st (Ended up being 6th OV and David Jiricek)

Maybe the worst trade in modern NHL history...kind of saved by the 2022 draft not looking great so far.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Why you say that?

I see it as well, and the fancy stats all confirm it but I have been told this is not the case.

I understand that he plays tough minutes, but a 9M dollar defensemen should be true a #1, and Andersson has clearly shown he is not that guy. Pacing for 35 points a year over these past two seasons also takes him out of that price range as well. He really has no basis to ask for that type of money.

Honestly a 7x7 deal is absolutely fair based on recent performance.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I understand that he plays tough minutes, but a 9M dollar defensemen should be true a #1, and Andersson has clearly shown he is not that guy. Pacing for 35 points a year over these past two seasons also takes him out of that price range as well. He really has no basis to ask for that type of money.

Honestly a 7x7 deal is absolutely fair based on recent performance.

I think the flames will have to sign him to 8 years if they want to keep him. The AAV of $7 million would probably be appropriate except that he is likely to be the captain of the team after Backlund who could potentially retire as early as next summer. I think the number ends up being $8-8.5 million AAV for 8 years to get the deal done. That would not be an overpayment IMO but not exactly a home team discount either.

[konradical]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think the flames will have to sign him to 8 years if they want to keep him. The AAV of $7 million would probably be appropriate except that he is likely to be the captain of the team after Backlund who could potentially retire as early as next summer. I think the number ends up being $8-8.5 million AAV for 8 years to get the deal done. That would not be an overpayment IMO but not exactly a home team discount either.

I think Backlund will and can play till 40. Similar to Bergeron. I also think he will want to play one season in the new arena. I think depending on how competitive the team is next 2 years will determine how long he plays. I can easily see him being the 3rd line center for 4 more years on this team.

Also it would be tempting for him to break Iginla's record of most games played as a Flame. I believe if he plasy all 82 in this contract and add one more year he would reach it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I understand that he plays tough minutes, but a 9M dollar defensemen should be true a #1, and Andersson has clearly shown he is not that guy. Pacing for 35 points a year over these past two seasons also takes him out of that price range as well. He really has no basis to ask for that type of money.

Honestly a 7x7 deal is absolutely fair based on recent performance.

The Flames aren't giving Andersson $9 million. They've made it clear that they aren't overpaying on retirement contracts. If those are Andersson demands, he'll end up being traded like Toffoli and Lindholm were.

I do see Andersson getting 8 years though.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by sekimet

That whole interview was amazing. Laughing about annoying backlund in the morning before he has his coffee, and walking around the plane forcing everyone to take out their earbuds to talk to him was hilarious. I really hope he sticks long term, seems like such a positive guy to have around the team.

This is why I was surprised that the Flames put Pelletier on waivers and was REALLY happy that he wasn't claimed. He's a major glue guy, engages with everyone and lightens the room. Obviously, he needs to contribute on the ice and they can't just give him a spot, but these intangibles are really important for a team like Calgary which can attract players if the team is winning and has a positive culture.

It's a piece of the puzzle that Conroy brings himself and has emphasized in player development. People like working in happy places.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames aren't giving Andersson $9 million. They've made it clear that they aren't overpaying on retirement contracts. If those are Andersson demands, he'll end up being traded like Toffoli and Lindholm were.

I do see Andersson getting 8 years though.

The Hanifin 8 x $7,350,000 plus a little extra for taxes is the comparable.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Hanifin 8 x $7,350,000 plus a little extra for taxes is the comparable.

Hanifin was also 26 when we tried to sign him, and was having a career year.

That's why it made sense to sign him to a large deal, and 8 years.

Andersson's deal will start when he is 30.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Hanifin 8 x $7,350,000 plus a little extra for taxes is the comparable.

I think the Hanifin deal is a comparable, even though he was much younger, only because of the 5% inflation and Hanifin probably took a little less because of the lower tax rate.

I posted this earlier, but these are probably his most recent comparables:

Brandon Montour got 7 X $7.14m, Brady Skjei got 7 x $7m and Jacob Slavin got 8 X $6.46m.

$9m+ is as unrealistic as under $6m.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Hanifin was also 26 when we tried to sign him, and was having a career year.

That's why it made sense to sign him to a large deal, and 8 years.

Andersson's deal will start when he is 30.

Hanifin's contract started when he was 27 turning 28 (he turns 28 this week).

Andersson will be 29 turning 30 (October 26th bday) when his new contract kicks in, so he will turn 30 a couple of weeks into the first season of his new deal.

So more of a 2 year age gap than a 4 year age gap...but the point still stands because those 2 years are very important when it's 33/34 year old seasons compared to 35/36 year old seasons at the end of the deal.

I still think 8 x $8M would be the number to get Andersson re-signed, and anything more than that would be an overpayment IMO.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hanifin's contract started when he was 27 turning 28 (he turns 28 this week).

Andersson will be 29 turning 30 (October 26th bday) when his new contract kicks in, so he will turn 30 a couple of weeks into the first season of his new deal.

So more of a 2 year age gap than a 4 year age gap...but the point still stands because those 2 years are very important when it's 33/34 year old seasons compared to 35/36 year old seasons at the end of the deal.

I still think 8 x $8M would be the number to get Andersson re-signed, and anything more than that would be an overpayment IMO.

There are no comparables to support that ask. It'll be around $7 for 7 or 8 years if he resigns.

[HighLifeMan]

Andersson simply won't get anywhere near 64M as a UFA, so to me 8x8 is absolutely a large overpayment. If he truly wants to be here then he needs to be realistic about his worth.