Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

The current version of Confederation is broken. To wit: your point on the transfer paymemts. Replacing Confederation is in the best interests of all Canadians.

Let’s take this as a fact for an instant.

It still doesn’t explain Smiths strategy because while we are tied to Canada we still get the negative affects of a collective recession in the rest of Canada. So right now in terms of negotiating with Trump Alberta’s and ROCs interests are aligned.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Is the US broken too since all of the states don’t agree on everything?

Well they did spend a few years in the 19th century killing each other by the hundreds of thousands.

Despite that, the structure under which the United States was setup was much more robust with significantly more foresight than whatever cobbled together nonsense has created perpetual squabbling in this country.

I'm of the mind that Canada was originally populated by people who were by definition okay with colonialism. So when they constructed Canada they did it with a colonialist mindset. This is why central Canada's population base dominates the rest of the country's policies. This was a feature not a bug.

The relationship between Central Canada's and Alberta is basically colonial.

[Slava]

You know, Bo, you should just move to the US. Evidently you love their system and feel like they have everything perfect. Apparently immigration there is a breeze, and you can do this really easily, so I don't quite understand why you wouldn't just do this and live a happier life?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Well they did spend a few years in the 19th century killing each other by the hundreds of thousands.

Despite that, the structure under which the United States was setup was much more robust with significantly more foresight than whatever cobbled together nonsense has created perpetual squabbling in this country.

The structure was so robust they started killing each other by the hundreds of thousands?


The result of the Civil War was a significantly stronger and more empowered federal government.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Let’s take this as a fact for an instant.

It still doesn’t explain Smiths strategy because while we are tied to Canada we still get the negative affects of a collective recession in the rest of Canada. So right now in terms of negotiating with Trump Alberta’s and ROCs interests are aligned.

Let's cause a massive recession in Alberta, to avoid a recession in Ontario. What could possibly be any negative consequences from this plan?

If your interest is actually national cohesion and unity, you would support Smith's activities. Because nothing would be more effective at boosting the Alberta population's attitude towards greater autonomy (separatism is such an ugly word), than the consequences of a Team Canada approach to the tariff negotiations.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

The relationship between Central Canada's and Alberta is basically colonial.

Well, we've really jumped the shark now. I'm not sure whether to feel revolted or to roll on the floor laughing.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

The structure was so robust they started killing each other by the hundreds of thousands?


The result of the Civil War was a significantly stronger and more empowered federal government.

The Americans have done pretty well for themselves.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

You know, Bo, you should just move to the US. Evidently you love their system and feel like they have everything perfect. Apparently immigration there is a breeze, and you can do this really easily, so I don't quite understand why you wouldn't just do this and live a happier life?

In all seriousness, I’m not sure why these people don’t just pursue this. For someone like myself, I like Canada because of all the great things that make it Canada instead of the US. If people hate all those things and love everything about the US… it’s a few hours’ drive away. Go get a job and fill your boots.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

You know, Bo, you should just move to the US. Evidently you love their system and feel like they have everything perfect. Apparently immigration there is a breeze, and you can do this really easily, so I don't quite understand why you wouldn't just do this and live a happier life?

Oh its not so bad...sure, theres some hours in a stuffy unlit truck and some precarious hiking and then fording the occasional river, but its not so much unlike summer camp really!

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh its not so bad...sure, theres some hours in a stuffy unlit truck and some precarious hiking and then fording the occasional river, but its not so much unlike summer camp really!

Character building so that you can be a Real Man.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In all seriousness, I’m not sure why these people don’t just pursue this. For someone like myself, I like Canada because of all the great things that make it Canada instead of the US. If people hate all those things and love everything about the US… it’s a few hours’ drive away. Go get a job and fill your boots.

It's like talking to people who hate their jobs. After a while, it just falls on deaf ears for me. I get it, you hate it, so why are torture yourself when the solution is so obvious?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's like talking to people who hate their jobs. After a while, it just falls on deaf ears for me. I get it, you hate it, so why are torture yourself when the solution is so obvious?

Well you see, as an Albertan he's actually a prisoner of this colonial regime, he doesn't actually have the option to leave to the sacred land of freedom that is America.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Torture

Character building so that you can be a Real Man.

Its all about the bootstraps man! If you cant hack a van ride and some hiking how do you plan to be a Canadian??

They hand you a toque, jeans, a flannel shirt and suspenders before they stuff you in that van! The boots are up to you!!

And by the time you get where you're going? Oh yeah, you will have the requisite beard.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Let’s take this as a fact for an instant.

It still doesn’t explain Smiths strategy because while we are tied to Canada we still get the negative affects of a collective recession in the rest of Canada. So right now in terms of negotiating with Trump Alberta’s and ROCs interests are aligned.

The degree to which those interests are aligned is dependent on the details of the tariffs. But it should be apparent to everyone that Alberta's exports are more coveted by the US than other exports.

That results in reduced alignment of interests with the rest of Canada. What is better for Alberta? The certainty of a recession caused by export taxes on oil? Or an energy carve out and the secondary consequences of a ROC recession?

The ROC has been consistently antagonistic towards Alberta's energy industry. Alberta owes no one any favors.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh its not so bad...sure, theres some hours in a stuffy unlit truck and some precarious hiking and then fording the occasional river, but its not so much unlike summer camp really!

I spit my coffee.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Despite that, the structure under which the United States was setup was much more robust with significantly more foresight than whatever cobbled together nonsense has created perpetual squabbling in this country.

We squabble, the US storms the capitol.. I prefer squabbling

[Makarov]

Province
or
territory GDP PPP
(million
Int$, 2023) GDP
per capita PPP
(Int$, 2023)
Canada 2,524,378 62,978
Ontario 963,305 61,659
Quebec 498,593 56,351
Alberta 389,273 83,098
British Columbia 352,679 63,758
Saskatchewan 94,392 78,055
Manitoba 79,051 54,340
Nova Scotia 51,260 48,519
New Brunswick 40,471 48,632
Newfoundland and Labrador 33,522 62,204
Prince Edward Island 8,539 49,156
Northwest Territories 4,714 105,492
Nunavut 4,152 102,006
Yukon 3,726 81,951

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I spit my coffee.

I planted trees up north one summer (<- thats where I got my hat!) and I figured I'd try my hand at being a Coyote for a bit but it didn't really work out.

I dont like hiking all that much and the whining is just incessant. Its inescapable.

"Are we there yet? How much do we bribe Border Security? Are you sure this is the right way? How many rivers do we have to go over? Why are you wearing that hat? Wheres my water? How come you don't have a map?"

Its just on and on and on. Oh! And its in Spanish! I couldnt figure out how to explain to these people that I speak Spanish on like a Grade 2 level. If you want to fire off a whole tirade at me? I have no idea what you're saying.

"Bominos...Mochilla." And thats about the extent of my proficiency.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Let's cause a massive recession in Alberta, to avoid a recession in Ontario. What could possibly be any negative consequences from this plan?

If your interest is actually national cohesion and unity, you would support Smith's activities. Because nothing would be more effective at boosting the Alberta population's attitude towards greater autonomy (separatism is such an ugly word), than the consequences of a Team Canada approach to the tariff negotiations.

It isn’t an either or scenario. The best outcome for all Party’s including the US is No Tarrifs. Taking nuclear options off the board and not negotiating as a united front undermines this task.

If the end result is Tarrifs on everything but Oil and Gas Alberta loses. Alberta also doesn’t have authority to concede or do anything. Alberta can’t trade Dairy for Oil. So by undermining the Canadian negotiating you increase the likelihood of negative outcomes and increase the likelihood of the feds trading something in Alberta’s interest for something in RoCs interest.

Given the nature of confederation accepting everything you say is true Smith is undermining the interest of Alberta because we are tied to Canada. Smith is increasing the likelihood of Ottawa screwing over Alberta and increasing the likelihood of a negative Canadian outcome bs the US while doing absolutely nothing in improving Alberta’s situation.

Like saying Hey Trump don’t Tarrif O+G because I will sue if they try to shut off o+g doesn’t help Alberta. It gives away leverage on our ability to fight back.

Even on the goal of negotiating an energy carve out She has undermined her negotiating position by not presenting a united front.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Well they did spend a few years in the 19th century killing each other by the hundreds of thousands.

Uh huh.

Despite that, the structure under which the United States was setup was much more robust with significantly more foresight than whatever cobbled together nonsense has created perpetual squabbling in this country.

I don’t know about that, after all we didn’t have to kill each other by the hundreds of thousands. Which to me would be indicative of poor foresight.

I'm of the mind that Canada was originally populated by people who were by definition okay with colonialism. So when they constructed Canada they did it with a colonialist mindset. This is why central Canada's population base dominates the rest of the country's policies. This was a feature not a bug.

Are you sure it’s not more so a result of where the majority of people live in this country?

The relationship between Central Canada's and Alberta is basically colonial.

Is Saskatchewan our colony? PEI? Or are we the only ones allowed to be victims? I’m proud to live in this province despite its warts, but the constant hyperbolic whining from people who only seem to be able to form opinions based on what politicians and podcaster “pundits” tell them to believe is getting old.

These cookie cutter talking points that you use to justify your opinions don’t have a whole lot of depth to them.