01-13-2025, 12:49 PM
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#3641
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
So you disagree when Smith said we should expect tariffs? Why is costing the rest of Canada valuable? Are you a traitor, too?
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Alberta should press for no tariffs against Canada, and failing that an exemption for energy. If that comes to pass, then Alberta is maintaining the status quo.
How she maintains the status quo with respect to national unity should be of no concern to Alberta. In fact, Trump should recognize that exempting oil and gas from his tariffs significantly improves his negotiating position with Canada in all other ways. Which is why I expect him to do just that, if he puts any tariffs on at all.
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01-13-2025, 12:51 PM
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#3642
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
There is nothing wrong with this. If the rest of Canada has nothing of value to take into negotiations, that's their fault.
If the rest of Canada's negotiating position is "we have Alberta", then they are saying the quiet part out loud.
Alberta is in an amazing position here and Smith is doing a great job pressing that advantage. She should push even more to utilize Alberta's importance in terms of negotiating an improved deal with the rest of Canada. Trump's position is a gift to Alberta's leverage over the rest of Canada, and I expect Smith to make use of it.
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Canada has billions of dollars worth of trade leverage that isnt just PNG. Weird way to look at our country, but sure.
Foodstuffs (beef, dairy, grain)
potash
Energy (not just PNG); but hydro
mining
Auto / manufacturing
Also, as a Canadian, i dont care what kind of leverage Alberta has over the rest of Canada. I hope that Canada gets a good deal overall.
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01-13-2025, 12:52 PM
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#3643
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
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In either case, Canada will want to use oil and gas as a negotiating tactic with the US by utilizing export taxes - regardless of the exemption status of Alberta's oil and gas.
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01-13-2025, 12:52 PM
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#3644
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Alberta should press for no tariffs against Canada, and failing that an exemption for energy. If that comes to pass, then Alberta is maintaining the status quo.
How she maintains the status quo with respect to national unity should be of no concern to Alberta. In fact, Trump should recognize that exempting oil and gas from his tariffs significantly improves his negotiating position with Canada in all other ways. Which is why I expect him to do just that, if he puts any tariffs on at all.
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It's crazy to me the amount of people that say crap like this, then argue that Quebec or Ontario or the maritimes should toe the line to the rest of Canada...
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01-13-2025, 12:53 PM
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#3645
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
Canada has billions of dollars worth of trade leverage that isnt just PNG. Weird way to look at our country, but sure.
Foodstuffs (beef, dairy, grain)
potash
Energy (not just PNG); but hydro
mining
Auto / manufacturing
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Then the Alberta oil discussion should be moot.
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01-13-2025, 12:58 PM
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#3646
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Au contraire, my sweet summer child. If you can negotiate a good position for yourself, which in this case is maintaining status quo, and it results in a cost to a third party (the rest of Canada), then you certainly have something of value.
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What can she negotiate? She can’t negotiate prices, volumes, quality. So she offers vibes in exchange for no tariff on O&G, and the Feds decide to put in a 25% retaliatory export tariff to put pressure on others what does that leave?
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01-13-2025, 12:58 PM
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#3647
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
It's crazy to me the amount of people that say crap like this, then argue that Quebec or Ontario or the maritimes should toe the line to the rest of Canada...
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It's crazy to me that people are so sentimental about any of this. It's always about leverage, whether you are applying for a job, you are trying to secure the best deal as a province within Confederation, whether you are Canada dealing with the US, whether you are Alberta dealing with the US, etc, etc.
The population of Quebec seems to be the only one that understands this. Well, apparently Trump and Smith also understand this.
The warm and fuzzies are for your family and your pets - but if you are factoring that into your negotiations, you're at a disadvantage.
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01-13-2025, 01:00 PM
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#3648
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Alberta should press for no tariffs against Canada, and failing that an exemption for energy. If that comes to pass, then Alberta is maintaining the status quo.
How she maintains the status quo with respect to national unity should be of no concern to Alberta. In fact, Trump should recognize that exempting oil and gas from his tariffs significantly improves his negotiating position with Canada in all other ways. Which is why I expect him to do just that, if he puts any tariffs on at all.
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Just a second here, who's side are you on?
Essentially you are saying Smith should convince Trump of something that harms the position of Canada to negotiate, provides no benefit to Alberta, and you are gleeful about it?
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01-13-2025, 01:01 PM
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#3649
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Anyway...lets check on how things are going in the land of the free.
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Incoming senior Trump administration officials have begun questioning career civil servants who work on the White House National Security Council about who they voted for in the 2024 election, their political contributions and whether they have made social media posts that could be considered incriminating by President-elect Donald Trump’s team, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
At least some of these nonpolitical employees have begun packing up their belongings since being asked about their loyalty to Trump — after they had earlier been given indications that they would be asked to stay on at the NSC in the new administration, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive personnel matters.
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https://apnews.com/article/trump-bid...fef314fed488e5
Ah, ok, cool. totally normal things that happen every time an administration changes, and not a sign of a fascist state.
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01-13-2025, 01:04 PM
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#3650
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
Energy (not just PNG); but hydro
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Doug Ford mentioned potentially just shutting the electricity off if tariffs go through. Several states rely on electricity generated in Canada and their consumers actually pay less for it than Canadians. It would be hilarious if the minute Trump implements the tariffs, the lights go out in the northeast U.S.
I don't think Ford actually goes through with it though. There must be a contract in place.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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01-13-2025, 01:05 PM
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#3651
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
It's crazy to me that people are so sentimental about any of this. It's always about leverage, whether you are applying for a job, you are trying to secure the best deal as a province within Confederation, whether you are Canada dealing with the US, whether you are Alberta dealing with the US, etc, etc.
The population of Quebec seems to be the only one that understands this. Well, apparently Trump and Smith also understand this.
The warm and fuzzies are for your family and your pets - but if you are factoring that into your negotiations, you're at a disadvantage.
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Look, I get that you are trying to be all edgy and everything, but this makes zero sense. This has nothing to do with sentiment or "leverage" (I'm not convinced that you really understand what that word means).
Albertans are also Canadians. They have a huge interest in protecting Canada's interests. Sacrificing Canada's interests to advance Alberta's is not "leverage". Its stupid (indeed, its approaching cut-off-nose-to-spite-face territory).
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
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01-13-2025, 01:07 PM
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#3652
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck
What can she negotiate? She can’t negotiate prices, volumes, quality. So she offers vibes in exchange for no tariff on O&G, and the Feds decide to put in a 25% retaliatory export tariff to put pressure on others what does that leave?
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Smith to Trump: "Your goal and Alberta's goal is to keep oil land gas flowing into the US as cheaply as possible. So exempt our oil and gas from your tariffs, and you will continue to have cheap energy. If you want to negotiate a trade deal against the rest of Canada on things that are actually important to you, using tariffs on other goods, then that is up to you."
Trump: "What if the feds slap an export tax on oil and gas?"
Smith: "I have already publicly stated that we view that as unconstitutional and we would create a constitutional crisis. You would be in an even better position."
Federal Gov't: "We would like to use Alberta energy as a negotiating tool, but we would really prefer not to create a constitutional crisis."
Smith: "Sounds good, federal gov't, here's the list of powers we want the federal gov't to permanently concede to the provinces...."
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01-13-2025, 01:08 PM
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#3653
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Smith to Trump: "Your goal and Alberta's goal is to keep oil land gas flowing into the US as cheaply as possible. So exempt our oil and gas from your tariffs, and you will continue to have cheap energy. If you want to negotiate a trade deal against the rest of Canada on things that are actually important to you, using tariffs on other goods, then that is up to you."
Trump: "What if the feds slap an export tax on oil and gas?"
Smith: "I have already publicly stated that we view that as unconstitutional and we would create a constitutional crisis. You would be in an even better position."
Federal Gov't: "We would like to use Alberta energy as a negotiating tool, but we would really prefer not to create a constitutional crisis."
Smith: "Sounds good, federal gov't, here's the list of powers we want the federal gov't to permanently concede to the provinces...."
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Your fanfic is getting more and more boring.
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01-13-2025, 01:09 PM
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#3654
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the middle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Smith to Trump: "Your goal and Alberta's goal is to keep oil land gas flowing into the US as cheaply as possible. So exempt our oil and gas from your tariffs, and you will continue to have cheap energy. If you want to negotiate a trade deal against the rest of Canada on things that are actually important to you, using tariffs on other goods, then that is up to you."
Trump: "What if the feds slap an export tax on oil and gas?"
Smith: "I have already publicly stated that we view that as unconstitutional and we would create a constitutional crisis. You would be in an even better position."
Federal Gov't: "We would like to use Alberta energy as a negotiating tool, but we would really prefer not to create a constitutional crisis."
Smith: "Sounds good, federal gov't, here's the list of powers we want the federal gov't to permanently concede to the provinces...."
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Feds: We don't need your permission, dip####.
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01-13-2025, 01:11 PM
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#3655
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Lifetime Suspension
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BoLevi would be ashamed having you use his name here.
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01-13-2025, 01:12 PM
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#3656
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
Smith to Trump: "Your goal and Alberta's goal is to keep oil land gas flowing into the US as cheaply as possible. So exempt our oil and gas from your tariffs, and you will continue to have cheap energy. If you want to negotiate a trade deal against the rest of Canada on things that are actually important to you, using tariffs on other goods, then that is up to you."
Trump: "What if the feds slap an export tax on oil and gas?"
Smith: "I have already publicly stated that we view that as unconstitutional and we would create a constitutional crisis. You would be in an even better position."
Federal Gov't: "We would like to use Alberta energy as a negotiating tool, but we would really prefer not to create a constitutional crisis."
Smith: "Sounds good, federal gov't, here's the list of powers we want the federal gov't to permanently concede to the provinces...."
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Except, as has been explained already by several posters, there is no constitutional crisis, so... this is nothing but fantasy (and, I acknowledge that I really shouldn't judge other people's kinks, but its a pretty lame fantasy at that).
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
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01-13-2025, 01:13 PM
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#3657
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov
Look, I get that you are trying to be all edgy and everything, but this makes zero sense. This has nothing to do with sentiment or "leverage" (I'm not convinced that you really understand what that word means).
Albertans are also Canadians. They have a huge interest in protecting Canada's interests. Sacrificing Canada's interests to advance Alberta's is not "leverage". Its stupid (indeed, its approaching cut-off-nose-to-spite-face territory).
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I'm only being edgy insofar as being realistic is being edgy.
Canada and Alberta do not share identical interests. Sometimes they share some common interests. But I see not reason that Alberta should put Canada's interest above Alberta's, unless doing so also benefits Alberta. The other provinces and the feds are also counterparties to Alberta.
Canada is in no way constructed as a country in terms of "same team". So I think people should dispose of that idea since it is not reality.
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01-13-2025, 01:15 PM
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#3658
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov
Albertans are also Canadians. They have a huge interest in protecting Canada's interests. Sacrificing Canada's interests to advance Alberta's is not "leverage". Its stupid (indeed, its approaching cut-off-nose-to-spite-face territory).
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In theory it's a point, in practice IMO no.
Given that Alberta's resource sector is a big empoyer of all Canadians, is a big factor in equalization that is sent to provinces that refuse to develop their resources (Hi Quebec) or have them unfairly not part of the calculation (Hello Again Quebec) one can also argue that Albertas interest benefit Canada.
So whatever you think of Smith, there are some realities here
1. Trump is the next president of the US
2. Trump is spouting off nonsense again, whether you agree with or not, its at getting peoples attention
3. You should go talk to him and get it from the horse mouth.
Premiers go to down to DC all time, this is nothing new, in fact i am pretty sure a few years back the federal NDP sent a delegation down there, with an agenda that many felt was against Canada's best interest.
I get that some of you loathe her and can do know right but holy christ even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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01-13-2025, 01:16 PM
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#3659
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughneck
Feds: We don't need your permission, dip####.
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Maybe. But that's unclear legally and almost certainly would require a lot of legal wrangling at the level of the constitution, as Smith has already pointed out. That would not be helpful in the middle of a a chaotic election. That approach but the feds would drive significant further division in the country and given Quebec's position would probably fuel Quebec separatist sentiment.
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01-13-2025, 01:17 PM
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#3660
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
The exclusion of oil and gas from the US tariff plans.
She's essentially been advocating for that in public already.
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Canada's one bullet in the chamber...lets take that off the table
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GFG
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