Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The policy was divisive by design in pinning the haves vs the have nots, rich neighbour vs poor neighbour.
This Liberal regime did this a lot and were never shy about blaming landlords, business owners, small corporations, anyone with investments for all of our problems.

They were divisive.

Divisiveness was a Trudeau thing long before he was PM. I think we have all seen the 2010 video interview of him in his pirate phase when he said Canada wasn't doing well because of Alberta and that Canada is better served when Quebecers are in power. That interview was an indicator of his mindset and how things would play out if he became PM.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

nah you're right, nanny state for all!

You should read up on the Final Boss for Nany States, it worked out well!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Ya, that's about what I thought. Enjoy being a horrible human being with zero empathy. One day you will get yours.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Because it’s a tax, and Canadians have grown to hate paying taxes as much as Americans do. Of course we also expect European-quality public services. I’m sure it won’t be hard for Poilievre to square that circle.

Canadians are not stupid enough to believe that an increase in taxation is going to lead to better quality social services no matter how many times you pitch it as the way forward.

And rightfully so given how our government wastes money.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The hike on capital gains tax was a step in that direction. The conservatives predictably voted against it.

What will PP do? Lower corporate income tax? That old chestnut has never ceased to be the solution for everything.

It’s funny, everyone complains that we can’t keep doctors in Canada, they head to greener pastures elsewhere. Yet the Liberal mentality is that doctors make too much money, so they should be taxed more, and then they complain that we can’t retain doctors.

Rinse, repeat.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Are you pointing our reality or are you experiencing things differently? I actually ask you this question cause some of the things you are saying are not rooted in reality.

Trudeau is going out in a lot of ways a winner, he never lost an election. Although Harper was PM longer and lost, Trudeau has been in power from 2015-2025.

What has actually happened is that there has been such an open revolt within his own caucus, MP's, donors and party officials that it's actually shocking his fall from grace.

There is a parade of MP's from Liberal ridings, safe Liberal ridings who are telling him he has to go. It's over, move on, the fat lady has sung.

He was effectively removed as party leader but given the courtesy to resign. This is the hockey equivalent of the players shutting the door on a coach/GM and the players and the fan's having quit virtually 100%

He isn't wanted by his own people and party. They are done with him. Look what happened when his useless Finance Minister and Deputy PM pulled the rug from under him that day! She had the guts and the support to walk into a room and get a standing ovation from MP's and then went and hugged him while he was all smiles.

Trudeau's wings and n**s were clipped by his #2. This happens all the time in business, in politics, in sports and in the mafia.

Your trying to turn an 80 year old former oil guy in Gwyn Morgan into some global political player. He isn't George Soros, The Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, Elon Musk or other power brokers.

On the balance of probabilities, you should probably listen to leaders of the opposition including a shocking amount of progressive MP's and people who say Trudeau is really that bad and needed to go ages ago.

K, none of this pointlessly long post negates what I said, that an entire industry of bull#### sppreaders have arisen and spent the past 10 years working right wing voters up into an angry froth, such that they'll do things like camp on the side of a ####ing highway for months on end for no actual reason at all. They didn't even know why they were there after April, but being treated like heros by the propaganda outlets was enough to keep them there with their racist effigies hanging from posts, and tattered upside down flags blowing in the wind.

These are objectively not smart people and they are used like idiots to get Conservatives elected. If you want to debate that point, have at it.

Since you denied the Gwynn thing without looking, this is what he funded:

https://pressprogress.ca/shopify-exe...rrorist-group/

And here's where he donated to them:

https://www.desmog.com/2024/10/28/fr...te-true-north/

And here are the opinion pieces he writes, with such bangers like (paging Iggy)
OP-ED: Why unions are dividing Canada and wrecking the economy

https://tnc.news/author/gwynmorgan/

And this doesn't even touch on the ones the normal public sees as legitimate, bought and owned by Americans, with their flaghead paper of opinion pieces written by Conservatives alone, the National Post.

Sorry, but you can not legitimately argue there are not an unprecedented number of fake and real news agencies that have spent the last decade trying to convince any Canadian listening that Trudeau is worse than Hitler, and Conservatives have the solution.

And don't you ####ing try to "but the CBC!" Me on this one.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Canadians are not stupid enough to believe that an increase in taxation is going to lead to better quality social services no matter how many times you pitch it as the way forward.

And rightfully so given how our government wastes money.

Well we've tried decades of cutting taxes, and our services have gotten worse, so maybe we should try something different for a bit?

[afc wimbledon]

Taxes are really pretty simple, you dont want to levy so much they make life difficult for businesses and people to get on at the same time you have to offer a decent modern infrastructure that is just as important for economic growth, there are plenty of countries that have no taxes, Somalia, the Sudan, oddly they arent a hotbed of economic growth

Finding the balance is always the hard part, on the left we tend to discount the effect of taxes and just assume the economy will continue on no matter how much money is taxed and spent, conversely on the right they constantly downplay the importance of a well run infrastructure and also massively over state the benefits of low taxes

[Fuzz]

It's not really an assumption though. We know it does continue to function because we can look at the past. And no, we don't need 90% tax brackets again, but we have also obviously swung too far the other way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well we've tried decades of cutting taxes, and our services have gotten worse, so maybe we should try something different for a bit?

No Fuzz, it’s just a coincidence that every country with better healthcare than Canada or the US has higher taxes. We must lower taxes so the doctors do not leave, even though underfunding is the main reason why doctors leave and “my taxes are too high” weirdly doesn’t seem to rank.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

It’s funny, everyone complains that we can’t keep doctors in Canada, they head to greener pastures elsewhere. Yet the Liberal mentality is that doctors make too much money, so they should be taxed more, and then they complain that we can’t retain doctors.

Rinse, repeat.

Doctors are people that are top income earners for sure.

The bill wasn't to increase income tax but capital gains tax so it doesn't target doctors directly.

[Fuzz]

Unfortunately Conservatives and their bought and owned media outlets have made even starting a conversation around it to discuss benefits and drawbacks so toxic that any time it comes up, the obvious solution is to cut taxes. Or promise it, anyway, because that seems to work just as well on low IQ voters.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well we've tried decades of cutting taxes, and our services have gotten worse, so maybe we should try something different for a bit?

That has been tried for the last 10 years though, and the result has been:

• Government employees are up 40%
• Debt servicing costs are at an all time high, with debt doubled
• The economy has been growing at the slowest rate in the G7 in terms of real GDP per capita
• Housing prices have increased at the highest rate in the G7
• Having to import cheap labor in order to prop up the stagnant economy and show some level of nominal growth
• Billions of dollars wasted by the government on non-value adding things (consultants, paying their buddies, etc.)
• Basically zero investment thesis left for Canada anymore to help drive the economy
• Continued large government deficits even years after the pandemic

Is all of this worth $10 day care and a dental program? Because I haven't seen a whole lot out of the government other than this.

Now the pandemic obviously had an effect on things like the debt doubling, but when the economy is as stagnant as it is, you can't continue to run extremely large deficits and add to the debt levels. The US can keep adding debt because their economy sees a benefit in doing so (eg. Inflation Reduction Act). Canada doesn't see that benefit. You get into a doom loop of: raise taxes because you need to fund social programs --> you lose some of that expected revenue because people and industries leave to more competitive jurisdictions --> you have to keep raising taxes to fund things.

As a higher earner, why in the world would someone want to stay in Canada when they could go to the US, get paid more for the same job and have lower taxes and lower cost of living, better health care for less money, and better future job opportunities from a dearth of companies out there?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No Fuzz, it’s just a coincidence that every country with better healthcare than Canada or the US has higher taxes. We must lower taxes so the doctors do not leave, even though underfunding is the main reason why doctors leave and “my taxes are too high” weirdly doesn’t seem to rank.

Perhaps if the Liberals haven’t mismanaged finances, they could transfer more money to the provinces for health care.

I believe we now pay over $109,000,000.00 per day on interest alone. I understand that that is not all on Justin Trudeau’s Liberals, but they have contributed massively to that, even if you remove the covid times.

We could do a lot of good to the health care system by investing some of that wasted money there.


Anyways, it’s nice to see you are back! Still waiting for a response to post 16818. I’m sure you will get to that soon.

[Fuzz]

What taxes were raised? Reminder that for most people the carbon tax is rebated, particularly low earners.

Is that 40% adjusted for population growth and new programs?

Higher taxes could contribute to lower debt.

GDP per capita...you sure? That doesn't sound right
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cha...ry-2019-2029f/

Immigration mistakes were made, that's not a tax cut so not sure the relevance.

I guess if the only thing a high income earner cares about is money, they can leave? Why do we want to hold on to a morally bankrupt population?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The hike on capital gains tax was a step in that direction. The conservatives predictably voted against it.

It was a cheap ploy for votes.
Pulling a lever on one group makes the other group feel good.

The answer isnt always raise taxes when the spending of that money has been wasted in enormous amounts.

What will PP do? Lower corporate income tax? That old chestnut has never ceased to be the solution for everything.

Again, can't talk about a government policy without bringing up the other guy?
This excusing away every the Liberals did is what got us here.
I expect more from my government than simply the other guy's are worse.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The policy was divisive by design in pinning the haves vs the have nots, rich neighbour vs poor neighbour.
This Liberal regime did this a lot and were never shy about blaming landlords, business owners, small corporations, anyone with investments for all of our problems.

They were divisive.

How is that different then the progressive taxation we already have, or means tested child benefits or means tested dental or raising OAS for those over 75.

Increasing the amount of progressive taxation in a system of progressive taxation can’t be considered divisive.

That’s an insane take that a policy that benefits 95% of people is divisive.

Daycare funding is far more divisive by that metric.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

nah you're right, nanny state for all!

You should read up on the Final Boss for Nany States, it worked out well!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

When you look at the current state of Russia it’s a series of oligarchs keeping a dictator in power. The wealth disparity and take over and elimination of independence from media ( Twitter, Washington post) suggest an oligarchy is a far bigger risk than the nanny state.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What taxes were raised? Reminder that for most people the carbon tax is rebated, particularly low earners.

You forget that the "cArBoN tAx iS rEvEnUe nEuTrAl!!!1!!" crowd completely ignores that the government charges GST on top of the carbon tax. I think one of the slimiest things this government has done is spin it as revenue neutral, when it's not. Yes, lower earners still probably get all of that back, but it's not what it's spun as. The government is making billions off of this.

But you also know my thoughts on the carbon tax in general and how it effects the economy as a whole, again, with companies leaving because Canada is no longer competitive.

Is that 40% adjusted for population growth and new programs?

Has our population grown 40%? Even if it did, do you think the growth in government employees and population should be linear?

Higher taxes could contribute to lower debt.

Have they in the last 10 years?

GDP per capita...you sure? That doesn't sound right
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cha...ry-2019-2029f/

You're showing nominal GDP per capita - I am talking the growth rate of real GDP per capita (stated in my original post).

https://images.app.goo.gl/EuwpVvnTNr2RKCJC8

Immigration mistakes were made, that's not s tax cut so not sure the relevance.

Not sure of your point here - mine was that currently, the economy is being propped up by cheap labor, rather than having any sort of actual investment or industries driving growth. Makes the numbers look better than they are in reality.

I guess if the only thing a high income earner cares about is money, they can leave? Why do we want to hold on to a morally bankrupt population?

How is that morally bankrupt? Is it morally bankrupt to look at all of the things I listed and know that you would have a much better life in the US?

[PepsiFree]

Daycare funding is also a very weird thing to get hung up on. It’s something that has a measurably large positive impact on a great number of people.

I notice people don’t complain about something like the GST being too low when they rail against government finances. A 2% increase would have a negligible impact on Canadians but would bring in an additional ~20 billion per year (put in another terms, 50% of the total money that has just been promised -not even spent yet- for $10/day daycare).

It’s odd that conservatives are so over-focused on minor issues because they perceive them as left wing instead of more pressing issues. That’s why nobody actually takes them seriously when they try to posit themselves as economic stewards. History has shown they just ruin the economy in ways Canadians don’t benefit from instead of ruining it in ways we do.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No Fuzz, it’s just a coincidence that every country with better healthcare than Canada or the US has higher taxes. We must lower taxes so the doctors do not leave, even though underfunding is the main reason why doctors leave and “my taxes are too high” weirdly doesn’t seem to rank.

We do need both higher taxes on the wealthy but also higher taxes on the middle class. When you compare to the places with better health care a big old VAT tax is missing.