American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

People talking about Canadian culture and "assimilation" like that's ever been a part of the Canadian ethos. 50 years ago I learned about melting pot versus mosaic and people still don't get it.

I think it's great for all immigrants to keep their food, culture, religion, celebrations/holidays etc. I like going to different restaurants/celebrations and think that's great.

But I don't like it when grudges/fights from other places get brought here.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

People talking about Canadian culture and "assimilation" like that's ever been a part of the Canadian ethos. 50 years ago I learned about melting pot versus mosaic and people still don't get it.

Maybe because it's more complicated than that?

The cultural mosaic may not mean "become exactly like the rest of us", but it also doesn't include suppressing women's rights, racism, transphobia, or anti-gay sentiments, for example.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But every kid doesn't like hockey. Born and raised Calgarian and idgaf about hockey.

Huh.

I never saw someone say that before.

[Fuzz]

Culture is one thing, it's usually the religious parts that end up causing conflicts. And I don't have an issue with the ceremony type stuff, but when you start trying to impose your own religious restrictions on others, that's when I'd invite them to PFO.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

People talking about Canadian culture and "assimilation" like that's ever been a part of the Canadian ethos. 50 years ago I learned about melting pot versus mosaic and people still don't get it.

That’s because melting pot vs mosaic was always a meaningless buzzword to differentiate us from the US. There isn’t really meaningfully different policies to encourage or discourage assimilation between us and the US.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Huh.

I never saw someone say that before.

She held my hand and we walked home the long way, you were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr. 🎶

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Culture is one thing, it's usually the religious parts that end up causing conflicts. And I don't have an issue with the ceremony type stuff, but when you start trying to impose your own religious restrictions on others, that's when I'd invite them to PFO.

I think there is issues when you want to propagate religious views that don’t conform to charter values of equality to the next generation. The Catholic school boards skirt this line closely by mostly just trying to ignore that LGBTQ people exist rather than actively teach against them but the Private religious schools have no real restrictions.

I think private religious schools is not imposing your religion on others but loses the largest threats against secularizarion

[Fuzz]

How about Convenent Health and denying covered medical treatments because some dumb #### in Rome says so, and we've apparently turned over our moral decisions to him in buildings funded by all taxpayers, and in breach of the Canada Health act?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s because melting pot vs mosaic was always a meaningless buzzword to differentiate us from the US. There isn’t really meaningfully different policies to encourage or discourage assimilation between us and the US.

They are completely different concepts. As for policies, I don't know. But a lot of people here sure want people to have to "assimilate" though they have trouble articulating that in a way which doesn't require people to give up their cultural background.

Playing hockey, doing other "Canadian" things - people do that because it's fun, not to fit in. Being told to dress a certain way, speak only English (or French), not do their own traditional activities, that's what a lot of immigrants feel assimilationists are requiring.

But sure, let's have visible minorities "assimilate" (as long as they don't take white jobs, play white roles in movies, get too involved in politics, etc).

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Doesn't that sort of line up with what I'm saying? During those periods, the ratio of immigrants to Canadian born citizens was really high, and a bunch of ethnic enclaves formed and grew. If you maintain those rates, those things get bigger and bigger and indefinitely delay cultural assimilation of some portion of the population.



Yes, and we get a ton of the "Happy Medium" here in Canada. I love going to ethnic neighbourhoods in different cities, and having the various different cultural celebrations etc. If you take that to the extreme, however, you end up with things like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamtramck,_Michigan

TL;DR: They now have a publicly broadcast call to prayer, have banned bars near mosques, and were early in the admittedly long line of rainbow flag bans.



I don't have data for it, but I would be willing to bet my life savings that if you surveyed new immigrants from Asia/South Asia about if they followed or played hockey vs. their children, there would be a stark difference.

No assimilation is remarkably predictable, it takes one generation regardless of how many migrants arrive, the vast numbers of British migrants that arrived in the early 1900's dwarfs anything we are dealing with today and yet none of their kids played soccer or cricket or rugby, they all sloughed off their British roots in a generation and were just Canadian, a migrant enclave is necessary for the parents, for language religion or just cultural comfort, the kids that are born here typically aggressively reject the 'old country' it's not just that they don't need it, it positively pisses them off

[dissentowner]

When did this become the immigration thread?

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But every kid doesn't like hockey. Born and raised Calgarian and idgaf about hockey. No way all immigrants care about hockey. Most don't...it's probably just your bubble of people who like hockey.

Wait, isn't this a hockey message board?

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

When did this become the immigration thread?

What do you hope to achieve with this post? Immigration is a huge discussion in politics right now.

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Wait, isn't this a hockey message board?

Look at his post history, dude doesn't talk hockey. When Calgarypuck was actually growing it the Calgary part of Calgarypuck became just as important to a vibrant off topic forum

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They are completely different concepts. As for policies, I don't know. But a lot of people here sure want people to have to "assimilate" though they have trouble articulating that in a way which doesn't require people to give up their cultural background.

Playing hockey, doing other "Canadian" things - people do that because it's fun, not to fit in. Being told to dress a certain way, speak only English (or French), not do their own traditional activities, that's what a lot of immigrants feel assimilationists are requiring.

But sure, let's have visible minorities "assimilate" (as long as they don't take white jobs, play white roles in movies, get too involved in politics, etc).

They are completely different concepts. The behaviours of the US and Canada aren’t any different to argue one is a melting pot and one is a mosaic.

[BigThief]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1875249122158285213

[Fuzz]

Trial? Ahahah, that's a good one. When was the last time a US healthcare CEO was charged with anything?


And some dumb ####s want this system in Canada.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BigThief

https://twitter.com/user/status/1875249122158285213

We really shouldn’t be posting this type of misleading posts. The link in question does not reference what Lancet study it uses as the basis for this claim.

I believe it is this one:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8572548/

The number appears to be a comparison is the years of life added under a single payer system vs the current system primarily due to the expansion of health coverage of the uninsured.

It has no discussion of the insurance companies affects of denying care. So using this metric and attributing the deaths of these theoretical people. Instead these deaths are at the feet of congress who refuse to provide healthcare.

We should better source tweets.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Trial? Ahahah, that's a good one. When was the last time a US healthcare CEO was charged with anything?


And some dumb ####s want this system in Canada.

To flip the script, plenty of Canadian's die as a result of wait times that are excessive and past the point of medically necessity. All politicians in every province and all Prime Ministers have struggled to properly fund health care to match our needs and make meaningful improvements. Access to family Dr, surgery wait times, preventative medicine, long term care, facility upgrades and a lot more.

American medical CEO's should be charged but so should Canadian politicians for allowing the mess we are in ourselves. The US style system has some incredible benefits but also some sides that are downright dirty. Our Canadian system similar. When any sort of comparison should be made, it should be made to a hybrid system in other nations with substantially better options available to people. I think at last count from the Canadian Medical Ass. 25% of Canadian's waited longer than a year for elective surgery where a lot of EU countries was 0-4%? My numbers may be slightly off.

Just because Canada and the US have screwed things up for their people doesn't mean everybody else has. The fact that you and I can literally spend our money on whatever we want but are prevented in a lot of ways from accessing care quicker for a fee wither that be small or large is absurd and deeply unethical. In Canada we like to pretend that we don't ration healthcare due to budget limitations but we actually do. There is a long list of people who are actually ahead of normal people

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by curves2000

To flip the script, plenty of Canadian's die as a result of wait times that are excessive and past the point of medically necessity. All politicians in every province and all Prime Ministers have struggled to properly fund health care to match our needs and make meaningful improvements. Access to family Dr, surgery wait times, preventative medicine, long term care, facility upgrades and a lot more.

American medical CEO's should be charged but so should Canadian politicians for allowing the mess we are in ourselves. The US style system has some incredible benefits but also some sides that are downright dirty. Our Canadian system similar. When any sort of comparison should be made, it should be made to a hybrid system in other nations with substantially better options available to people. I think at last count from the Canadian Medical Ass. 25% of Canadian's waited longer than a year for elective surgery where a lot of EU countries was 0-4%? My numbers may be slightly off.

Just because Canada and the US have screwed things up for their people doesn't mean everybody else has. The fact that you and I can literally spend our money on whatever we want but are prevented in a lot of ways from accessing care quicker for a fee wither that be small or large is absurd and deeply unethical. In Canada we like to pretend that we don't ration healthcare due to budget limitations but we actually do. There is a long list of people who are actually ahead of normal people

To counter, do many Canadian die due to wait times? If you go to ER and they find a hole in your heart, that gets tiraged pretty quick. Now you may have a bum hip and have to wait longer than if you paid a bazillion dollars to go to the states, but that's more discomfort than life threatening isn't it?

I'm not American so i dont know. Are people being denied surgery because they can't claim it or have they had the surgery already and cant claim it therefore having to pay the bill?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

To flip the script, plenty of Canadian's die as a result of wait times that are excessive and past the point of medically necessity. All politicians in every province and all Prime Ministers have struggled to properly fund health care to match our needs and make meaningful improvements. Access to family Dr, surgery wait times, preventative medicine, long term care, facility upgrades and a lot more.

American medical CEO's should be charged but so should Canadian politicians for allowing the mess we are in ourselves. The US style system has some incredible benefits but also some sides that are downright dirty. Our Canadian system similar. When any sort of comparison should be made, it should be made to a hybrid system in other nations with substantially better options available to people. I think at last count from the Canadian Medical Ass. 25% of Canadian's waited longer than a year for elective surgery where a lot of EU countries was 0-4%? My numbers may be slightly off.

Just because Canada and the US have screwed things up for their people doesn't mean everybody else has. The fact that you and I can literally spend our money on whatever we want but are prevented in a lot of ways from accessing care quicker for a fee wither that be small or large is absurd and deeply unethical. In Canada we like to pretend that we don't ration healthcare due to budget limitations but we actually do. There is a long list of people who are actually ahead of normal people

I'm all for throwing 45 years of Alberta Conservative politicians in jail for their unending incompetence and maliciousness regarding our healthcare system. Lock them all up.

And woaa, easy there bootlickers, NDP got us a cancer centre Conservatives tried to convince us we never needed, and started progress on at least one hospital...that the UCP has ####ed the dog on since getting elected. Currently they are trying to decide if south Edmonton needs a hospital they needed 10 years ago, but maybe this growing population thing is just a fad so we don't want to be hasty.