Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[TheIronMaiden]

It would be a pretty easy fricking choice.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This is really the culmination of years of pushing, and now Harper will get another of the things he wanted in the Firewall letter. It's not based on need or logic, it's a decades long axe grind against Ottawa, and voters have dutifully lined up behind his bull####. You see the same names over and over, doing the same stupid stuff until they find a way to make it stick. The fact that no amount of facts or reason can change the minds of the many many people like Goriders in this province is the reason we have to waste money on stupid ideas. People are just too stupid and easily manipulated.

Would you be happy if you could stay in the CPP and others would have the freedom to move to an APP if they wanted?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Goriders

That’s why I think the two option route would be the best. People could choose which pension they wanted to contribute to.

The number of people who would actually opt into an APP over the CPP is going to be so small it won’t even be worth it. Smith wouldn’t let that happen because it would be embarrassing.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Nobody asked for an APP. It’s a make-work project for UCP cronies.

I think it’s been discussed for a few decades. There were a couple of reports generated 20 years ago that recommended it. The government at the times wasn’t interested though. That doesn’t mean things can’t change though.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Think I mentioned earlier that they would have to put rules in to ensure there was no political interference. Would probably have to mirror whatever the CPP does.

any government that can "make rules" can also Unmake the rules"

Premier Lougheed's government put rules regarding the Heritage fund.
Premier Klein's government changed those rules

Premier Lougheed put in rules to prevent coal mining on the Eastern Slopes
Premier Smith's government is changing those rules.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The number of people who would actually opt into an APP over the CPP is going to be so small it won’t even be worth it. Smith wouldn’t let that happen because it would be embarrassing.

You might be right at the start. But if the pension outperformed the CPP I doubt that would be true in the long run.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

any government that can "make rules" can also Unmake the rules"

Premier Lougheed's government put rules regarding the Heritage fund.
Premier Klein's government changed those rules

Premier Lougheed put in rules to prevent coal mining on the Eastern Slopes
Premier Smith's government is changing those rules.

Wouldn’t the same comment apply to the CPP?

[Izzle]

Fascinating to see the cognitive dissonance from Goriders.

"You can't convince someone of something if their salaries depends on them not understanding that thing." I wonder who Goriders employers are .

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I don’t think that’s the case. But if there was a better option I would be interested. Who wouldn’t?

Originally Posted by Goriders

There was one other item that they kept talking about online. It was a $1.4 trillion deficit that I think the CPP carries. Something about the original recipients funding not being covered by their contributions (because there weren’t any) at the start of the program. I didn’t quite follow that part.

In 1990 the fund changes so it would be solvent. This involves today’s contributors paying for current retirees so people end up contributing more then they wil get as a result.

The CPP doesn’t have a deficit, it is solvent until 2075 meaning with predicted growth and contributions it will be able to pay out retirees. It does rely on current workers paying for current retirees at the present time.

You also have said you don’t want the better option of the Calgary pension plan yet didn’t say why you don’t?

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I feel like if she decided to call it the BusTits Pension Plan it might get more people on board.

Bus…on board. Good one!

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Nobody asked for an APP. It’s a make-work project for UCP cronies.

I believe this. Somehow they have to get some of the Surplus back to the "benefactors".

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You might be right at the start. But if the pension outperformed the CPP I doubt that would be true in the long run.

Outperformed by what metric? You’re personally going to get a fixed amount every month, no matter what. There’s no special bonus cheque if the funds do well.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by BowRiverBruinsRule

I believe this. Somehow they have to get some of the Surplus back to the "benefactors".

“we will do another study….”

[Dynamic]

Its pretty clear that the UCP is pretty much a foreign funded separatist party at this point. And it sucks for me to say that because a few years ago that would of been tin foil hat talk from me. The APP is just another step in the plan for them and its painfully obvious they will push this as long as they can until the electorate just gets sick of it or have been influenced by misinformation and propaganda and decide it is worth a shot.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Would you be happy if you could stay in the CPP and others would have the freedom to move to an APP if they wanted?

No, because that weakens CPP. And if the APP fails, the bailout will hurt.

[Fuzz]

Also, where are you getting your talking points from? Who are "they"? Because they are either lying to you, or mentally deficient. And it's clear you are repeating their info.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Wouldn’t the same comment apply to the CPP?

ah.. the awaited "whatabout-ism"...

Are you trying for the argument: "the the feds could change their rules.. and that would make everything ok for Alberta to change rules?"

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Its pretty clear that the UCP is pretty much a foreign funded separatist party at this point. And it sucks for me to say that because a few years ago that would of been tin foil hat talk from me. The APP is just another step in the plan for them and its painfully obvious they will push this as long as they can until the electorate just gets sick of it or have been influenced by misinformation and propaganda and decide it is worth a shot.

Why do you say foreign funded?

This sounds the like the ridiculous oil sands argument. They may be foreign influenced through social media. But the funding is coming from within Alberta.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GGG

In 1990 the fund changes so it would be solvent. This involves today’s contributors paying for current retirees so people end up contributing more then they wil get as a result.

The CPP doesn’t have a deficit, it is solvent until 2075 meaning with predicted growth and contributions it will be able to pay out retirees. It does rely on current workers paying for current retirees at the present time.

You also have said you don’t want the better option of the Calgary pension plan yet didn’t say why you don’t?

Don’t think I have a specific reason. But my gut feel is a provincial setup would have more advantages.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

ah.. the awaited "whatabout-ism"...

Are you trying for the argument: "the the feds could change their rules.. and that would make everything ok for Alberta to change rules?"

The opposite.